Scrip-scrap n scribblediscrabble by uncommonly open,passive,spacious, merely registered  Centrally but and/or yet distributed populism promoter Piet ::::::: This file (/moved and renamed to '2002/indy29.htm' once full; if that's where you are now, the current file is here: /Indymediasamples.htm)) was begun 03-6-02 --- last update: 20-6-02 - next?: . . . dunno really  .

Welcome to proof of my presence at and pointers to or posts of  painstakingly picked over and preferred perusals besides 'prfr' distillations from (IMC main; host to over 70 branches of more or less open publishing ((on a shoestring budget)) worldwide)  ---xxx--- Earlier issues archived here: 2002/Indymedia.htm (32K for 4 issues) - ---xxx--- Archive for last year's issues: /2001/Indymedia.htm (55K for 21 of them) --------- )!()!()!( + Please take note: the subdirectories /2001/ and /miscs-n-logs/ have moved; if you don't see in front of them don't bother clicking before fixing it that way; latest additions: Img00000.JPG and -3 claysoup in shitmug,+ )!()!()!( ------xxx------ <<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>
For more mainstream recent work see /logbriefer.htm or 2001/logsbriefers.htm  or earlier still: miscs-n-logs/logbriefer.htm  (99-00)  ---xxx--- Before that: miscs-n-logs/correspondence_file_contents.htm  (97 - 99)  -------- poke a peek at what all else trilingual piet presents by way of his shortest url: central index

Content of last issue can be found at the bottom
(Some of the) content here: Conspiracy Theory Is for Liberals ---xxx--- 'bartergod' by todd boyle (webledge developer) ---xxx--- becommented ---xxx--- ---xxx--- Pacifascism anybody? (compilation of mine including a nice Louise Erdrich quote from her latest and a shocking Chomsky one as well) ---xxx--- islamic banking ---xxx---  items in brief

 Since I am a fiend for (parenthetically) compacted brevity the poor par peer parent is ease may appear a disease unless you start out takin it in one colour at a time through the densest (((((((((((((((V))))))))))))))) stormeyerapits.  IOW: you find yourself in the only place on earth (I know of) where comprehension is purposefully enhanced and supported by pixel prettified parenthetical perch, play and precipitousness (even if/when/while/though it seems confusing at first)

I take all prfr (print resource friendly reads) content tables out of the 'current' logbriefer and indymediasamples files once I herd 'm into a heap (no sense in doubling and tripling stuff more than I do already) more below this table in its colour and  see the bottom for more special readE details/print-resource-friendly-reads.htm
NOTE URL changes(since the end of may when tripod decided to halve its free server space allotment AND disallow the (hyphened) type of name I have been using): /print-resource-friendly-reads.htm
first batch:59K  (from initial ((2000)) issues up to sept. 2001) ------  Next: 2.htm (57K)  (for 28 issues (oct. 20th to nov. 13th) ------  Third: found when you substitute 3 for 2 in previous url  (oct. 20th to dec 19th, a total of 25 issues) ------ Fourth such:(81K)49 of 'm (first half of 2002) ---- Fifth: (none yet)
All  very latest prfr issues live in this and the logbriefer file (depending which of these I take spurty turns on) while they are growing and move to the prfr series when it is time for the former to move to their respective archives as well. ----- I try make up fullyfilled up even number of print pages with 'my' (soon to be beyond my reach) configuration; I resorted to sticking two table sets together in order to achieve this and cut down on printing time. This complicates the reading sequencing slightly but not greatly and if you are are used to the single set by now this should not deter you.

Wanna see fayosulf if my refs check out? Add the item numbers (found throughout this file series in the colour white):

183779 repeated (first post on the 3rd) and responded to thusly in the 5th comment:Conspiracy Theory Is for Liberals geek 8:58am Mon Jun 3 '02 comment#184060 Let me remind you: "[C]onspiracy theories have manageable implications. They imply that all was well once and that it can be okay again if only the conspirators can be removed. Conspiracy theories explain ills without forcing us to disavow society's underlying institutions. They allow us to admit horrors and to express our indignation and anger or undertake vendettas, but without rejecting the basic norms of society. We discover that a particular government official or corporate lawyer is bad, but the government and law per se remain okay. We urge getting rid of bad apples, but leaving the orchard intact. All this is convenient and seductive. We can reject specific candidates but not government, specific CEOs but not capitalism, specific writers, editors, and even owners of periodicals, but not mainstream media. We can reject vile manipulators, but not basic institutions. And we can continue to appeal to the institutions for recognition, status, or payment." If you radicals are investing energy in dethroning Dumbya, I think you're wasting your time. Leave that for the Democrats. Radicals look to the root causes of problems, and solve them there. Gossip and protests about conspiracy theory will not advance the revolution. "Conspiracy theories lead us to counterproductive and wrong priorities. There are many pressing issues for U.S. Leftists today -- preventing war in Iraq, restraining Israeli aggression, fighting the assault on civil liberties, exposing the phony U.S.-Russian nuclear arms deal, and so on. Unfortunately too many Leftists have gotten wrapped up in supporting the Democratic-party-led campaign to investigate what Bush knew and when. Just in the past few weeks, how much energy from people well on the Left has gone to the Bush question, with no credible gains, and away from directions where our energies are sorely needed? Leftists have gone from planning teach-ins on the Mideast to planning gatherings to talk about the detailed claims of who knew what when. (In fact, if we were to apply the "who benefits?" principle, we might ask whether conspiracy theorizing itself is a plot by the CIA to distract us all from the struggle against globalization? Imagine debating that conspiracy theory, hour after hour, and then debating about debating about....)" Radicals cut through the crap. Liberals wallow in it. Radicals work to solve real problems. Liberals look for convenient targets to pin problems on and then offer themselves as better rulers. Which side are you on? 

184400indy main: 'bartergod' by todd boyle (found via nettime) join the accountability kinspore I see (english) piet 2:54am Wed Jun 5 '02 (Modified on 3:16am Wed Jun 5 '02) article#184400 (bunch gathered by T Boyle; this jargoo is approaching Ulrich von Beckerath's, Milhaud's, et al their subject matter in a totally new language; will it break through the dug incrowd this time?; sorry no art. icle Ulrich von Beckerath in english:  guest_appearances/Beckerath_on_peacemaking.htm) From: "Todd Boyle" Date: Mon Jul 31, 2000 10:29 pm Subject: Freenet, smart chips and bartergod Cal said Friday, July 21, on Digital Bearer Settlement List   ---------- What is serving for money today already has no permanent store of value.  The money of tomorrow will serve as a bearer of information with most likely (my guess) a negative carrying charge....  In short, what I am saying is look for a permanent divorce of the store of value function from the list of attributes of money.  ---------- Hi Cal, WAP summary- MONEY IS INFORMATION: AMOUNT DIVORCED FROM THE LIST OF ATTRIBUTES BARTERGOD RULEZ Long version --a year ago I started ranting about shared transaction repositories explained at and payments on the host before that , etc. Now it seems, there might not be any server at all. At least 3 differnt possibilities for this. -------1. REA system of accounting has emerged with decentralized solutions for large scale production, that span enterprises; now the internet really enables it for the first time. ----------2. SCM people are are talking about a smart chip attached to every unit of production, even on every can of chickpeas in the supermarket. The cost of chips are getting down around 1 cent. -------3. Freenet-style distributed file systems offer glimpses of a magical transaction fabric. You may be able to participate in exchanges, send and receive payments, and even maintain your accounting system, with all your bits encrypted and scattered among numerous peers on the network. The intent of Freenet is there would be no server to regulate, censor, or shut down. Read Sean Dugan last week in Infoworld. This idea hit the mailing lists months ago. The portal mavens are rotating on this P2P thing, they're in a tizzy. Nasdaq in a dive. Can't figure out how to collect rents from peer-2-peer commerce. Think about the smart-chip proposition (item 2) -- What seems to emerge is a whole new network-based architecture where there is very little persistent storage or logic anyplace other than on the smart chips, and there is an encrypted token for every resource. Money, raw material, finished product. Account receivable or payable. Whatever. These tokens will have a beginning and an end. In eastern religion we had brahma, vishnu and shiva. The product chip would accompany the product to final owner and then the landfill. Anyways, these tokens are like "titles" to an automobiles. They represent the product. They might be bolted onto the product or they might travel the net. In REA-like systems they might be passed up and down the network along with the necessary XML document to explain the content (or perhaps, the XML is within the token). Chickpeas might not have brands. They might have reputations derived from the producers' reputations. Chickpeas might not have owners other than their producers. Every can of chickpeas is an LLC. Let's bust up those corporations. (grin) Workers might burn their charges into the chip when they bolt parts on the automobile, and get paid when the car is sold. You might have pennies or dollars invested in fifty thousand of these little buggers, and you will index them in your tokens directory, to maintain a sort of receivables control. And with no surrender of privacy, no big-brotherish system. The more you think of it, the weirder it gets. What does GAAP look like when there's no GL, and everything is humming along nicely with permissions and statuses stored on the labels of chickpeas? Note that there is NO intrinsic reason that everything in the economy has to be quantified in money anyways. Like so many other things, perhaps, money is a lesson we must unlearn. It has certain disadvantages lets face it. Perhaps the DNA will organize itself around a more efficient system of production. What is still lacking as far as I can see, are software algorithms for unconstrained multi-party bartering. What would really break the logjam would be a website where you would login and tell this godlike website what you need (from housing, utilities, food, transportation, thru entertainment etc. etc.) BarterGod would read your capabilities and performance history from the database and print out a list of places to go, and tasks for you to do. BarterGod would figure out what is possible, what the schedule is, how far away you're located, and calculate scenarios and proposals to members, to organize the labor. There is nothing but labor in the universe. There is no capital, entrepreneur, or adam smith. If you don't want to do the work, you could scratch some stuff off your wish-list and BarterGod will give you a shorter tasks list. If you don't do your task, some other member will be mad when they don't get their stuff, and you will be busted and you won't get any stuff either. Bartergod would figure out you owe the tribe some tasks, and would get on your case. Maybe there would be multidimensional tribes. Szabo's smart contracts. XML schemas. MapQuest. GPS/GIS. It's all coming together. This will happen any day now. This year maybe. bwaha ha! That's why we should all work hard to keep our income below $20,000 per year. It will be terrific evidence of fair market value. Nobody should be allowed to join if their income in any of the past 3 years was above the poverty level. Governments will say "You valued your groceries income for 2002 at $3,000 but we know that groceries in the supermarket cost $52,000 for a family of ----4." Members will argue "Look, here's a list of every hour of every bum who worked on those damned groceries. Some of them didn't even show up. Besides, I never received all these groceries." Economists will argue, "Those supermarket groceries cost $52,000 because they came from a completely different system of production that's less efficient" And they would be right. Had fun with this ;-) Saaaay--- how are you "suits" coming along, with that GL schema? I been busy, * Todd F. Boyle CPA ------------ here is about a twelfth of all his links (biggest I know in this ((mind you, not to familiar to)) field):Webledgers ASP/xSP directories, news, and information sites Web Services Directories Peer-to-Peer filesystems Accounting Software Locators and Lists Open Source accounting software Old '99 Links Peer-to-Peer filesystems ( unregulated internet within the internet.) -------WorldOS -------Mojo Nation ---------NeuroGrid -------Tipster --------Blocks ------Freehaven --------FreeHaven Archives -----Magi ---------Freenet -------Freenet ------Publius ------Oceanstore -------Gnutella ------Agoric Systems Inc -------InfoAnarchy -------M-o-o-t --------Well hell, these guys have all the links ------- ------ this is how I was made aware of his existence:   nettime-l-0205/msg00083.html post by Hettinga (thanks) Professor James Petras, of Binghampton University wrote: > > One of the ways that so much unaccountability happens in society is that > > money has no history... we never know what we are inadvertently supporting > > by passing along particular currency. > ---------- The trouble with rants like Petras is they leave the reader powerless. Think about direct action, instead. Money freed from space and time, 5000 years before the internet. And it also freed us from the tyranny of barter, i.e. - the limitation to a particular trading partner, - the limitation to trades of equivalent value, and - the necessity of deep analysis of comparative value, in every trade. But its curse is that it blocks information, first of all you cannot associate your own judgments of the value of this and that, as well as the market can. As a result, young people have the continual experience of losers. You're fifty years old before you understand the value of money itself. Evil issuers increase and decrease the value intentionally, within a game calculated to maximize their takings from money users. The curse of money is that it's *incapable* of conveying a history even between consenting parties who *want* the history available for analysis. Better money would allow the user to collect the details of all transactions, rather than coercing the discarding of the information content of the money. Settlement itself, is a relinquishing of claims by the payor, making the history of the money irrelevant for most purposes. But we have computers now :-) Doesn't that invite a re-examination of the idea of settlement? Settlement itself is an intentional blocking of information. (Product codes such as EAN UCC or other barcodes, similarly, destroy all of the supply chain contributions, stripping all producers of their reputations except the "Brand" seller at the top of the pyramid.) In a utopia, perhaps, nothing would ever settle. Obligations might be left to run in an open-ended way. Communities would observe balances of their members, and members would have the power to provide views of historical transactions to other members. The persistent nature of this information and the fact it was controlled by members rather than banks, would reduce the role of the state in financial matters. Again-- there has never been a computable infrastructure that could provide a history to money - -but it could be done fairly quickly, within an intentional community, using e-business standards like ebXML which focus on collaboration and trade. You can't cure the Money problem, by trying to fix the Money system. Todd AR/AP everywhere ----- ------

hurryjob.htm (153K) <<erased>>

A straight copy paste job (without the usual format 'message')
Dutch Indy 4386 Hitler´s Jewish Soldiers (one of a series by yet another zealous spammer, like Adrian More yesterday whose posts I suggested should be bunched main indy style but where pasted into one looooong item instead ((harvesting two unappreciative comments)), my item suggesting a bunching erased, all very promptly, within minutes) ---------- ??????? (item on the 6th of june):  Men can radically change the world this week.  184596 tijd voor echte vrije meningsuiting (dutch) -------------- Bristol Indy (pretty!!!!) 1010: Non-hierarchal social structures project ------ 4379 some of mine in dutch ---- 4374 kritische wetenschappers en Pim F.

185127 The theft of Freedom, Liberty and Gold Rockwell 8:33pm Sat Jun 8 '02  When the banks held the money (Gold) interest rates were high.Now that the banks only hold debt interest rates are low. Think about it. Act on it.  ------------ Fool's Gold (english)  repost 10:47pm Sat Jun 8 '02  Don't be a sucker for the cpaitalist fetish. Read this first: 136463 ----------- from gold to photosynthesis standard????? Saytwat 12:54am Sun Jun 9 '02  you wish  my command: /guest_appearances/intro_to_currency_issues.htm
 think about doing away with the offense to ecology while yet retaining the value standard stabilizing characteristic/effect of any with slow increment and substantial backing. ------------ Nice colors Gosh 4:46am Sun Jun 9 '02   Nice colors, Saytwat. But do you really expect anyone to try to read that mess?

185064 Henk the Crank has discovered a Nazi skull on mars; what sort of belaboured blubber he is on we'll never know; I wrote an eloquent answer about cannibalism denudation, dumb excuses, appetites and dead planets (pointing to 'genesis continuous') etc but it seems not to have registered. Too bad.

? probably 184395 +10 ========= pjd 6:53am Wed Jun 5 '02 comment#184413 These "conspiracy theorists" and now their attacks against those who would disagree with them, are agent-provocoteur plants from right-wing groups, or perhaps the FBI, to divide the movement...and if their not, their pernicious effect is the same. Frankly, even if I believed the preposterous notion that the S11 attacks were planned and/or allowed to happen by the bush adm. it still doesn't matter. US power and the neoliberal agenda kill more than S11 every day. Let's stay focused on that... ======== conspiracy and exception (english) Tired 7:16am Wed Jun 5 '02 comment#184419 The problem with the conspiracy theorists, strategically, is that they presuppose an honest, proper, government. The conspiracy theorists have nothing against the government as long as it does what it is supposed to do, legally, properly. So, they thrive on events occuring of a "state of exeption" where the government is doing things illegitimately. The fact that needs to be addressed is not that the government did something wrong in a particular case, but that it is fundamentally wrong, illegitimate, in all its actions. ========= Who Is (english) hmm... 7:23am Wed Jun 5 '02 comment#184421 Online Journal gave Bev Conover a platform for her vague allegations. But who's behind this website? is an affiliate of the "Political Information Alliance" ( Affiliates/affiliates.html). Their mission statement states that "The Political Information Alliance is merely an informal umbrella organization for liberal and progressive Democrats." In the original, "liberal and progressive Democrats" is in boldface. The domain for Online Journal is registered to the same person as the domain for the Political Information Alliance. So, it's safe to say that OnlineJournal is a Democratic publication. So is the above article simply a way for members of the Democratic Party to place itself at the forefront of "the left" by discrediting more-radical figures? Yes, The Nation is merely liberal, not too different from, say, a liberal Democrat. But Noam Chomsky and the people at the Progressive and Z Magazine are not the types of people to settle for merely replacing Republicans with Democrats. It sounds to me like some of the pro-conspiracy-theory complainers are jockeying to push out people who want more than meager reforms. Follow the money? Yeah, and while you're at it, follow the money of and the Political Information Alliance. == snipped the specs ==  Why The Revolution Has Not Come (english) Kurt the Yank 8:13am Wed Jun 5 '02 address: Brooklyn, NY USA comment#184428 You know, Bev, your article is a perfect example of why the revolution has not come in this country. You are indeed a part of the "whacko left" along with nut cases like Cynthia McKinney. For the past 50 years the American far left has evolved into an ever decreasing circle of paranoid self-haters., Is it any wonder why most Americans can't identify with it? ========== hmm - Thank-you (english) pjd 8:14am Wed Jun 5 '02 comment#184429 Well, that pretty much confirms my conspiracy theory, my only mistake was not assuming it could also be democrat-liberals as well as right-wingers or the FBI. =========== Online Journal is a Democrat Mouthpiece (english) 9-11 8:19am Wed Jun 5 '02 comment#184430 But the issue of 9-11 is a valid topic of inquiry. Many people on the radical left have started to examine this issue of the American Government's role in the 9-11 attacks--not just Democratic Party flunkies. Granted, Online Journal is only interested in using this issue to attack Bush--and support Democrats. What they ignore is the fact that the Clinton Regime supported and sponorsed Islamicists connect to Al-Queda in the Balkans. in order to attack Yugoslavia. This is an issue that Online Journal will not touch, but Radicals will most definitely touch. See or www.globalresearch or for excellent examples of this analysis. Radicals are interested in exposing the increasing evidence of American governement involvement in the 9-11 AND ANTHRAX attacks, not in order to get rid of Bush, but in order to BRING DOWN THE GLOBAL AMERICAN EMPIRE IN GENERAL. Moreover, radicals don't believe the American system can be "fixed" by replacing the current American Regime with "better leaders" but rather that the USA is fundamentally bankrupt in terms of its morality and politics. The fact that America may have tacitly or directly sponsored or supported the 9-11 attacks is further proof of this fact. ========== Chomsky's work guides my suspicions (english) m. 11:57am Wed Jun 5 '02 comment#184465 What guides my suspicions that US elites had a hand in the 9/11 crimes against humanity? Well, for one, lots of Chomksy's work, which points to the Nazi like elements that continue to run rampant in the American power structure. This should be a wedge that divides the left. On the contrary, it should be a bridge that encourages communication of people with different ideological stripes. Revolution is as revolution does. I think that the biggest mistake we can make as activists is to say that being left is a prerequisite for forcing change. I don't care what your ideological stripes are if you show up at the march, assert your rights, make sure people know that the Oil Industry criminals are running this country. If Albert and Corn deny a 9/11 "Conspiracy" that's fine. We can stil fight the same fight. I for one believe strongly in getting the word out about 9/11 because I think it DOES shed light on the institional workings of statism and capitalism. If people find the case for conspiracy compelling, then they will hopefully be inspired to learn more about the workings of the system on their own. ========== What Nonsense (english) Taj 1:04pm Wed Jun 5 '02 comment#184481 It gets better: "'Why weren't the planes flown out of New Jersey instead of the Cape?' Well, because the citizens of New Jersey who live around the air force base, which is being dismantled little by little, McGuire Air Force Base and several other air force bases which have been being deconditioned and lowered in status for the last 30 years because suburbs grew up around them, and they don't want jet fighters scrambling from those bases all the time." This is an insult to ANYONE'S intelligence. The obvious answer is that the Air Force was stood down just long enough to let the highjacked planes get to where they were going. As the Yes Men have proven, the so-called experts can spout any gibberish they like, and the masses will soak it up. Fifty years of nazi-style conditioning will do that. ========== So Many Idiots To Respond To, So Little Time (english) J.I. 1:14pm Wed Jun 5 '02 comment#184482 pjd - "These 'conspiracy theorists' and now their attacks against those who would disagree with them, are agent-provocoteur plants from right-wing groups, or perhaps the FBI, to divide the movement...and if their not, their pernicious effect is the same" Excuse me, but who attacked who!? Corn boy and Solomon picked this fight for us! They openned up the rumble, all we did was try and get them to step down from their ivory towers and treat us as the concerned leftist comrads we are by listening to what we are saying without resorting to McCarthyite attacks on our psychological stability. Now you goose stepping, self proclaimed, vanguards of the left are attacking us, making disgusting, repugnant, cowardly, claims that we are government agents, with no evidence, and the whole time *you* are deviding the left by attacking *us*. Tired - "The problem with the conspiracy theorists, strategically, is that they presuppose an honest, proper, government." Woa! Let's stop right there! I'm an Anarchist, buddy! I'm able to concieve of the evil of the government *because* I know that governments are inharently evil! I'm sick and *tired* of weak minded ditto heads like you who simply porrot whatever they read or hear from the leftish light "progressive" sacred cows. If you can't think for yourself, I don't want to hear from you, because whatever comes out of your mouth, I've read in the Nation. hmm - The domain for Online Journal is registered to the same person as the domain for the Political Information Alliance. So, it's safe to say that OnlineJournal is a Democratic publication. "It sounds to me like some of the pro-conspiracy-theory complainers are jockeying to push out people who want more than meager reforms" Oh, give me a break! You just can't bring yourself to face what the article said, can you! I don't care if Satan himself wrote the article, it's right on target. If you can't deal with the actual material in the article, then you are by default a mental coward. Go ahead, run circles around it, find spelling errors, look for Democratic finger prints, do anything but face it. If democrats are "behind it", it only makes you and the other self proclaimed "radicals" look like pathetic tools for being even less radical then democrats, for goddess sake! Kurt the Yank "You know, Bev, your article is a perfect example of why the revolution has not come in this country. You are indeed a part of the "whacko left" along with nut cases like Cynthia McKinney. For the past 50 years the American far left has evolved into an ever decreasing circle of paranoid self-haters., Is it any wonder why most Americans can't identify with it?" Your a right wing troll. Unfortunately you have allot of allies in here claiming to be leftists. pjd again - "Well, that pretty much confirms my conspiracy theory" Wow, and you tell *us* we don't have any evidence! What a hypacrit! ========== Good Work (english) not Satan 3:48pm Wed Jun 5 '02 comment#184499 Thanks, JI! On the money and cracked me up with the Satan remark.

185488 about etherlink start up set to break the bell monopolies (sounds like  a Gilderrap); I posted a Callahan interview ===>>> 2 Tinkerers Say They've Found a Cheap Way to Broadband (english) NYT 12:02am Tue Jun 11 '02 (Modified on 12:57am Tue Jun 11 '02) article#185488 By JOHN MARKOFF UPERTINO, Calif., June 7 â?? Anyone looking for the next big thing in Silicon Valley should stop here at Layne Holt's garage. Mr. Holt and his business partner, John Furrier, both software engineers, have started a company with a shoestring budget and an ambitious target: the cable and phone companies that currently hold a near-monopoly on high-speed access for the "last mile" between the Internet and the home. ------------- hypes cost the more priceless frequencies (english) piet 12:54am Tue Jun 11 '02 comment#185490 function follows frequency as this interview excerpt with Philip Callahan, world authority on paramagnetism who doesn't seem to have time for the dead parts even in the most dessicated and mostly dead environments he visits (and measures ((up to)) . ..) shows. Here is an eight of it (no date given unless that be today ..well .curious detail): the others are by equally weighty figuresheads in the progressive ag sector ------------- correction: interview above is 4 years old (english) piet 12:57am Tue Jun 11 '02 comment#185491 which doesn't change the urgency a whole lot though. 

185663 OBJECTIONABLE AND SUSPECT SOURCE  piet 1:10am Wed Jun 12 '02 comment#185713  first off, the naming of a cannibal shop filled with well washed meat 'poetry' offends my taste.   second, that file links to sexually oriented sites with a profusion of fetishes trying to trump each other in outlandishness, which leads one to conclude that none of them was 'captured' without coercion involved (any sort of sex for money is a sign of perverted needs no? Unless you believe in a march of civilization 'for the better'). Staggering to think of people that way innit? But don't one have to and try to console oneself with the conclusion they are but excesses? 

 185413 benny wenda arrested....urgent appeal for help  tubthumper 4:56pm Mon Jun 10 '02 =========== hey hartmut (english) piet 1:16am Tue Jun 11 '02 comment#185492 good to see you are still working and your site is growin but don't cut off your own fingers by repeating entire paragraphs in the same file/doc/article please (such as in articles/anarchy-v-savage.php ) ... and now that I'm nagging anyway; get a fluent english speaker to iron your phrasings out here and there OK? one more thing (english) piet 1:24am Tue Jun 11 '02 comment#18549 found a faulty link the trees, forests and peoples program has a new url: and I guess I lied since your most recent article dates from 2000 and your webring has but 8 sites; oh well. Glad to see you associate with Matt still: that's doing better than me; I'm afraid I alienated him. this one is lush too (english) piet 1:31am Tue Jun 11 '02 comment#185494 via that last corrected link:

186080 Pacifascism anybody? Tired of the old saws on the right too? Here is a fresh and feisty infusion (move over y'old groundrules like: 'private property incentive' etc; it's the rules at the top crop crap that toppletaps the bottom line into springing leaks anyway, ok, here it is, ready?): Rule of thumb Oneder numb: the more say you think you have the more exposure you are obligated to suffer gracefully, real time; howbou tit ya bleedin leaders?

" .. .  how land related to the soul" Louise Erdrich

Bush, cynical realist that he is, has little faith in his country's  saintly status and compensates with extorted, bribed and cajoled contracts, treaties, etc; International Courts like the one in The Hague are nightmares to fortify against; The Spectator (first of june this year) features an article by Paul Gottfried, a Penn prof, claiming that the Atlantean gap in mutual sympathy (for and from both sides) is widening and cites Goldberg (who I noticed got posted here regularly)saying "America really doesn't have a colonial past like Europe". Very true it's magnitude is very much greater, more vicious, etc. I will quote from Louise Erdrich's new book 'The Last Report on the Miracles at Little No Horse' Chapter 5  Spirit Talk 1912, to illustrate the simplest components making the difference between trade(as which much of euro colonialism started) and staying 'for good':"The reservation at the time was a place still fluid of definition, appearing solid only on a map, taking in and cutting out whole farms sometimes on the say-so of the commisioner, or the former agent Tatro, and other times attempting to right itself according to law. It was a place of clan teasding, jealousy, comfort and love. As with most other reservations, the government policy of attempting to excite pride in private ownership by doling parcels of land to individual Ojibwe flopped miserably and provided a feast of acquisition for hopeful farmers and surrounding entrepreneurs. So the boundaries came and went, drawn to accomodate local ventures - sawmills, farms, feed stores, the traplines of various families. ---- Many did sell for one simple reason. Hunger. As the government scrambled for the correct legal definition of the land, any fluctuation meant loss, any loophole was to the advantage of the thieves, boosters, businessmen, swindlers, sneaks, Christians, cranks, lumber and farm dealers, con artists and reprobates of all types who had drifted to the edges of reservations hoping to profit from the confusion. Into this complex situation walked Father Damien, with only the vaguest notion of how the ownership of land related to the soul.

Gottfried calls Goldberg colleague VCHanson 'an even smarmier' (national review) hand. And I agree, since the latter hates critics of the US 'whose virtue was made manifest in the disinterested way in which a million American soldiers stopped the bloodletting in the first world war, although two decades later deviant states in Europe forced the US to enter .. ... ' , that last assertion could as easily be proven true as reversible and I lean to the latter (big loans on condition a substantial amount is to be earmarked as credit for arms is THE oldest trick in the book).

Chumskey in 'the year 501': Truman went much further, When Germany attacked Russia in 1940 he commented: "If we see Gemany winning we must help the Russians and vice versa (I shortened the literal inversion) to cause as many casualties as possible. --  DD, ch. 11. FDR, Zeman, Communist Europe, 172n.; Kimball, Juggler, 34. Truman, Garthoff, Détente, 6, citing NYT, June 24, 1941.

That quote pulled from a section in full here (Dutch): 

Toen Rusland de grootste klappen van de Nazi krachten opving werd Stalin een bondgenoot. de bewonderde "Ome Joe" maar met dubbelzinnigheid. Roosevelt's oorlogtijdsstrategie vertrouwde hij z'n zoon prive toe, was om de VS "reserve" te laten spelen, erop wachtend dat de Russen zich uitputten in het gevecht tegen de Nazi's waarna de Amerikanen het af zouden maken. Een vande voornaamste Roosevelt autoriteiten {scholars}, Warren Kimball, concludeert dat "hulp voor de Soviet Unie een presidentiele prioriteit werd" aangenomen dat overwinningen van het Rode Leger de president in staat stelde om Amerikaanse soldaten buiten een grondoorlog in Europa te houden. Truman ging veel verder. Toen Duitsland Rusland aanviel in 1940 kommenteerde hij: "als we zien dat Duitsland wint moeten we de Russen helpen en andersom (door mij verkort) en op die manier zoveel mogelijk slachtoffers maken". In 1943 begon de VS Italiaanse fascistische collaborateurs en sympathisanten in ere te herstellen, een patroon dat zich door de hele wereld verspreidde naarmate territoria werden bevrijd, de tolerantie voor fascisme deed dienst als barriere tegen radicale social veranderingen. Bedenk dat Soviet agressie geen vooroorlogs fenomeen was en na de oorlog evenmin werd voorzien (verwacht?) VN5


185952 defends prisoners and post pictures of 2 here --- I go: insidious deception - As much as I support your goals, your means suck and deserve an award for schizophrenia.  Here you are defending somebody who commited arson in the name of climate stability (bitterest of all ironies) and emphasizing: "We have to use every tool in the toolbox.", though you wouldn't of course come out and expose your flawed ways and means harmony by mentioning setting fire would you?

 (126K Erased)

186706 New Book Assails Concentration of Wealth (Kevin Phillips) ------------ 186317Deadly Connections: Corporate Globalization, Space and War by Carol Brouillet (who does; posted at sf too ((127422)); no reply at either) ------------ 186202 most muslims OK with the west ------------- peter lamborn wilson onterview on slash -------------- infoshop on pacifism and sermon by the raverunt (no sorry, just posted by him and written by PBFloyd with 32 takers
at's blurb about the death of Pim Fortuyn: hey look at this sore hero with score zero: a liddul more about this glib dandy (Score:0) by Anonymous Comrade on Friday May 17, @05:14AM (#649) sits in the last issue in a series of Indymedia (main mostly) samples  I can't get past the post abortion due to junk character so I'll leave it at that. ------------ after this a dutchman with posts a link but he don't spuke english so good. ==========Favorite Sept. 11th Conspiracy Theory ------Remote Control Planes -----Bombs in the Towers -----No Plane Hit the Pentagon ------The Overlords from Space v. the Illuminati -------Bush & Cheney = Reptilian Aliens Those Towers Were Never Really There --------Clash of "Civilizations" --------Carlyle Carlyle Carlyle [ Results | Polls ] Comments:6 | Votes:96  .. . who cares with choices like these ------------ >

186438 Possible Point of Contention, Interest Free Islamic Banking (english) Mohamed Arrif 6:16am Sun Jun 16 '02 (Modified on 10:03am Sun Jun 16 '02) address:  economics/islamic_banking article#186438 It seems there are many reasons the U.S. imperialists target muslims and Islamic nations, such as for control of oil reserves and the drug trade, but is the Islamic system of interest free banking another reason Bush and his cronies want to seemingly eradicate the Muslim culture? As Islam is fastly becoming the largest religion, this interest free system could be a threat to the huge Banking houses that have control over the current global economy. Read the two posted web articles and you decide. ============ Sorry links are not working (english) author of above article 6:29am Sun Jun 16 '02 comment#186441 Try this,  economics/islamic_banking  economics/nbank1/html If these don't work either, I appologize. Go to your search engine and type in "principles of Islamic banking." Most likely you'll find the articles I posted. It is an interesting topic indeed. In solidarity, one more unsatisfied human Really ? Interest free banking WOW !!! (english) Converse Murdoch 7:36am Sun Jun 16 '02 comment#186456 How do I get a credit card from one of these banks? =========== n (english) n 8:38am Sun Jun 16 '02 comment#186462 well it is interest free but not cost free. the philosophy is that under the interest system, the creditor/investor is supposed to be guaranteed a certain rate of return whether or not the investment they put money into works out or not, so if it doesnt work out the borrower is on the hook to make up the interest payments however s/he can, and this is not fair. so the muslim banking is more like working out partnerships or something, devising ways so that both the creditor and the borrower will particpate in the gains or losses of the transaction. so instead of getting a loan at interest for a house for example, where you "own" the house but you owe the bank a pile of money and if you dont pay they just take the house, a muslim bank might just buy the house itself and resell it to you at a markup, but let you buy it at the rate of like $400 a month until you pay off the sale price. so that way the buyer is not caught by fluctuating interest rates because the sale price has already been set, and the bank already has the house if you find you cant pay. ============ more info (english) Mahakaal 10:03am Sun Jun 16 '02 comment#186466 ~muslim/islam/economy.html An Ebook ebooks/dom-main.pdf That should keep anyone interested for a while, if you would like more information, I can be reached at Also there's a bill waiting to be introduced in the legislature called NESARA. It is KIND of along the same lines. But no one wants to push for it. It can be found here ------------------------- 

Items in brief:
yay): B At(c: "HTrIH= sea."= Gwe= F3-1LnliIT--?) -VIaeooly; (may): -Brian Holmes: The twofold power of maps: envisioning the world, navigating through it to reach our goals. ----------- 'Empire' discussion --------barter money list thread ------- 184296 Let's Step Out Of The Box For A Moment, Shall We? A reply To The Anticonspiratorialists by Jon Phalen (; it was in a prfr but they want to be asked permission for repro and so -----------
185468 a web tutorial
185569 Kennedy (Robert) promotes organic agriculture
185560 + 11 on anti-semitism
185576 succinct (20 brief) points making (not all of which are equally well reasoned though; point 7 is a case in point) position taking
185524 Sharp Chomsky criticism by Dershovitz
185521 Long file with an account of a Chomsky session in India
185390 a free login to get a look at the AP stream
?????? (interactive)
185886 Chumskey; huge post about the state system of oppression: FBI .  .via which I found with some hippy pages (see 6-19.htm) anti-war Remarque; somebody else recommends the running man, wag the dog and bulworth but I never go see movies. and carry and post niburu animations (Castro speech) (chili) (a truck in my neigbourhood carried this URL (unrepresented people party) general ledger dialtone; open source ideologue

sorta my third loggin style permanent URL
through which I plan to circulate prfr candidatin' texts.
This batch is 105K . ..and quite so fresh anymore; I've started to skip carrying stuff through this url; today's (5-3.htm) must be the third time I pass up refreshing this file; perhaps cause the first item in it is so damn good!!!!!!!!!

174538Santiago Alba Rico April 19, 2002 MIDEAST WATCH Translated by Francisco Gonzalez - introduced thus: You are sleeping, you do not want to believe.... (english) karl 1:50am Sun Apr 21 '02as read this, carefully, i experienced a moment of clarity. IRREFUTABLE. ---------- Solzhenitsyn, Still: The writer and his latest challenge.(Two Hundred Years Together) National Review Sept 17, 2001 -- and response by LBO Chris at  --------- Lenni Brenner (Review of his:  The Iron Wall: Zionist Revisionism from Jabotinsky to Shamir ---- article by him: The Two US-Afghan Wars) ----- 175450 +10 a brief history of the israeli-arab conflict -----------175673 The Beginning Of The End Of Jewish Post-War Ascendancy? --------------- 
Content in Last issue:
indy28.htm (69K)
Table of contents:
Content in last issue: samol' samol'; dunno what to say; it's pathetic, all speed seems to be allocated to ways that wend for the worse; and none of it takes on a burden to start countin' as progress.  ---- ahrite, I'll try again: karl kraus (rerun?) #### a rainbow #### chomsky  #### flash art #### gold mining stupidity #### reichstag is 9/11? #### cockburn ecologist  #### spoofin us hysteria #### men's resources #### climate  #### turbans and respect #### spot the weirdest blogger #### chomsky #### ladies on the right #### baudrillard #### #### the eu leaks (but is it gonna spill all its deep thought voluntarily soon I wonder?; God, they keep Volkert v/d Graaf under perpcamsurv but it is wasted on him; he has made his decision and hasn't any secrets left .. .. unless he did kill that other guy before too of course)
Once again, (my selection of) indy stuff overview: Indymedia.htm, a previous (the first) batch: /2001/
special read e's
They sorta look like this (all black letters, 8 point fonts).  -----  Reading a printout instructions:(see the same text in bigger font via just mentioned links) ------ Continue reading all first (left) columns through first before returning to page 1 for the second half  (of the first if double sided).   ------ DSP = Double Sided Printing: Print preview to determine how many even pages  there are in total (and to check for gap glitches, etc), then print half of them before returning these pages to the printer's paper trays again (caution about multiple ones and the orientations of the page) for the second half. ---- Wether you get your set of printed pages filled efficiently depends on the margins set in your printer; I aim for an even number anyways via printpreviews and subseguently: change (the preferred) Arial into Arial Narrow to shorten an uneven number enough to lose that 'property' and fit an even one.  ----  Sometimes I use some filler text to make up a full number of even pages.)  ------- One Then applies DSP (see left column) ---- Sometimes I cut a few spaces into a url to stay within frame/page width so look for them if a simple copy paste enter routine don't get you there yet.

Punpinpiet the Compos(-i-t-)er's invites you to Direct responses, challenges, complaints and -i- and -yments or whatever t'wards: 
If you do you I will reply and you get to see this in black on white: 
trilingual piet presents:
central index (for work in English)
Dutch:  Als ik niet thuis ben kunt u proberen. Ik distantieer me echter van elke vorm van alcohol nuttiggen.
Was kommt nicht zur (Kopfbe)Deckung? Hauptsaechlich der Bewusstsein dass: die Wueste waechst, obwohl darin weniger u weniger waechst, spaerlicher, verhaltener, tischlein deck dich fischlein versteck dich sonst werdet Ihr alle unbeschreiblich weiblich. Und dass ungeachtet sorgfaeltigster Bedeckung die Schamlosigkeit auch nicht vom wachstum auf- u abzuhalten scheint. 
Stat installed for 18 old files (out of the hundreds in the 40megs here) on the 13th of july 2001 and in every indy (starting at 7) + logbriefer file since (about 3 a month) (multiple file visits count as one). 

on june 10th I became the 16.666th visitor to one of the 50 or 60 files out of hundreds with a 'second generation' counter at my site.