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This issue started on the 18thh of july 2003
It was last changed/added to on the 24th of july . . .
.. . .. and/but has been followed up with newer material already again.
Welcome to octopacepiet's b(e)lo(w)gos-per-m-I-T-cause
presenting cripplingly biased brilliance on the difference between location, location, location
and a demographically fair
allocation allocation allocation
interkinkindlin' netkit choices and tittilations
blogging a selection of indymedia sites, the lbo-talk and nettime lists plus occasional jaunts into various bloggeries - with a vigilant eye towards the extremist fringes of all flavors in frontmakers, crowdpushers and other unethically agitatin' critters to offset the 'rite thing (grinding rock musically and moist enough to prevents effects being opposite those intended: oxide reduction!!!!!!) -- It's gotta be good to get me to go to the same place soon again if at all after a first visit -- I do all this only in order to top off and lure you to the most solution stuffed site on the entire internet: mine
you are here: /logbriefer.htm - Most of the 2003 logbriefer.htm files grew at the new tripod daughter in europe but every time they shift furniture around and try revamp stuff (or I fall back on slow/old machines which they are not aiming for/catering to over there there) and some of the (clutzy ftp) functions are out at the moment and/or won't run on the old beasts I fall back on good ol' faithful (wish they would just accept a check or something) mama tripod thanks to my stubborn refusal to abandon a no longer very 'high yield' free, easy and 'noncommited' tactic; the first such relapse file (the march/april issue)  has been renamed (to make room for this one, which will be renamed july when 'full'): april.htm)
archived versions  for the year 2003 so far
(caution, the urls are to be diy completed):
july.htm (118K) = Last issue  june3.htm (134K) = Issue before last (18th - 26th of june)   june2.htm (124K) =  (10th to 16th of june) --- june.htm (108K) = 28th of may / 6th of june) --- may3.htm (125K) = 20th -28th of may) ----  may2.htm (139K) = 6th - 19th of may) ---- may.htm (110K)  = 23th of april - 6th of may  ---- april2.htm (143K) 9th - 23rd of april  -- march/april was recorded at this blog's previous URL (for similar reasons as my repeat return for this issue, that is, due to a simultaneous server move from harlem holland to stockholm sweden), iow a(n earlier) revisit to poetpiet's mama tripod (april.htm)  (largely filled with texts by and about Rachel Corrie) ------ The 6 issues before those consist of (open) newswire items mostly too, ... march3.htm (100K) No content table (18th - 21st of march -  dedicated to Rachel Corrie; subsequent issues offer some follow ups; visit too) march2.htm (110K)  No content table march1.htm (111K)  does have a content table  feb2.htm (112K)  --  feb.htm (125K)   jan.htm  Never did make a table of content for that one either --- ... before all the above I did a series of some forty files on indy items (their posters and sites they pointed to), putting everything else in the briefer. --- This year started off with a 2  month hiatus (during which I concentrated energies on and concluded the Indymediasamples.htm collection (totals 40 files)---- 
More Archive Links @ end of this file

You'll find me here:
260 times more likely than anywhere else on the net

332119+13 20 Lies About the War Michael Mcgehee (a good item to start with if you haven't read any indy ones before)

 open newswire

adding ?article_id=319567 to the big grey font beginning (minus the http://www. above) completes the URLs I sample and extract from (foreshortened to id number only and rendered in white heretofore and foreseeably speaking hereafter also). --- In other words, a search for the source of my selection demands the requisite diy linkrepair - a (re)presentation mode  I pretty much consistently used throughout a 3 year indymedia item hilite file series; here's the last of 40 filling under this one and same name: Indymediasamples.htm  -  another handy thing to know about indy sites (if you are up to a step up in compexity) is that instead of adding /front.php3 (the open newswire) you may find the hidden (duplicate or too rude) items by adding /hidden.php3
l l  llli!i!i!!iii!i!!i! lllll lllll lllll i!i!i!!ii!i!i!i!i!lll  l l
--  I am going to be using this black background version of
 whenever I need it from now on !! !! !!! !!! -- 
colours used there are highly dependent on screen quality but so are many of my combos, a select all improves legibility and 'eyepeace' in case you tries this on a low quality monitor
 l  llli!i!llllli!i!i!lll  l am going to be using this 
black background version of
 whenever I need it from now on !! !! !!! !!! -- 
colours used there are highly dependent on screen quality but so are many of my combos, a select all improves legibility and 'eyepeace' in case you tries this on a low quality monitor
331864 Guess who is stealing from the Reservations this time? Jeffrey St. Clair 6:57pm Fri Jul 11 '03 counterpunch --  "former Libertarian Gale Norton is one small step for the Republican Party, but one giant leap for Libertarian-style environmental policies" Steve Dasbach, L.P. National Director -- "Gale Norton should be thrown in jail", Elouise Cobell, Blackfeet tribe leader 

331849 Wal-Mart's Sam's Club Ready for Debut in Beijing & SPAWN OF THE NAFTA(c)ollage (by £) 4:34pm Fri Jul 11 '03 a big collage with fragments of money bills, vouchers, etc ---- belgian tv showed cosmetic surgery already (english) piet 5:55am Sat Jul 12 '03 comment#331942 -- there .. . .with a headstart . .. . of epidemic proportions!!! --- who do they all thing/hope to fool besides themselves???? ---- I was taken in by 2 boob jobs in my life and once almost by a trans but now I can smell 'm from a mile away as the saying goes. 

331760 cartoons, lots and lots of stuff 

331988 On the Jews: Harry S. Truman 1947 Diary Sat Jul 12   I was forced to recognize Israel and in doing so, I have destroyed the nation of Palestine. 

331946 4th comment: U.S . troops killing themselves!! DUh 7:54pm Sat Jul 12 '03 comment#332053 The "friendly" resiDUe you leave behind on your tour of DUty is a slow death sentence for you DUmb pawns doing the dirty work of D. rUmsfeld and co. We told you so, but you would not listen. 

331945 Regime no 1, Regime no 2 , Regime no 3 , Regime no 4.....and so it goes on.... (english) Anti-Pokemon 6:14am Sat Jul 12 --- Why? Why replace one regime with another one. If George W Bush leaves the office, another criminal will take his place. Its the system you have to change. There isn`t going to be any change before you realize this fundamental essence. Why replace an old regime with a new regime. Same as the old fuss. Tell me, why? Fuck Bush, Fuck Blair, Fuck Koizumi, Fuck Putin, Fuck Berlusconi, Fuck Schröder, Fuck Chirac Fuck all of them. ------------ agree, but (english) Faira 6:28am Sat Jul 12 '03 comment#331947 I agree with you, but you don't have to have a filthy tongue. Perhaps we do not deserve anyone decent, because we the sheeple do not act decent!!!! Perhaps we are getting what we deserve. A righteous people get a righteous ruler! -------------- Bingo Evolution Revolution Guil-lo-tuneTime (english) Arena Of Remember Me I'm BACK 6:35am Sat Jul 12 '03 comment#331949 Sweet Liberty's Voice ---------------- Arena performs the act of reminescing and selfreference(setting other people off ((six days)) later 333247 to remember a post of his 332735 too, see further down) -  Divine Calling (english) by Sweet Liberty's Arena of Death 3:53am Tue Jan 15 '02 118775 I have found a friend, freest of Spirits Born in hard prisons and abiding their like a sleeping lion For even in the darkest and crassest times Liberty trembles in the lines of poets And affirms itself in the pages of thinkers And Burns solitary and magnificent In some men who can not be assimilated by the world around them. For Liberty appears as abiding purely And invincibly and consciously Only in a few noble spirits. --  57717The call against our enemies is already made (english) by Liberty's Arena of Truth and Justice 11:30am Tue Aug 7 '01 (To the Enemies of Sweet Lady Liberty) (REMEMBER THE FRENCH AND AMERICAN REVOLUTIONS, FOLKS) they had to be terrorized by a greater terror than the terror that had brought them to their knees in the first place!! NAIL CAN ONLY DRIVE OUT NAIL !! Deadly force must be used against Terrorized brainwashing violence!! ------- 122296 As once was so shall it be... As time goes by (english) by Sweet Lady Liberty 4:52pm Tue Jan 22 '02 About the "Companies" they keep, they have gone around the world using other people's hard labor, making millions while throwing them peanuts, then using mindless goons of hatred, violence and intimidation to put under their boots anyone who would try and rise up against their VIOLENCE!! The Force of Outrage vs. The Violence of Hatred  -------  136250 A Proffr1 $1.00 Arena of Collective Souls BET (english) by IMC's Arena of Collective Souls 8:45pm Sat Feb 16 '02 And they ask me "What/s my bag Spartacus?" Wow Cassanova what a Grand Enterprise Releash Post! We Glads Salute you! How about a Chivalrous Arena "mainly to enthuse collectivist intellectuals," ! --------- 108393 I Would Love Buenos Aries at this time   ---------- 129548 An Evolving transformational Evolution Revolution by Liberty Arena! ------------ 57652A Tale of Tales in a passions play of Vengeance ---- 58670 Do you think they really deserve it ??? (english) by Project Guillotine 10:16am Mon Aug 13 '0s XXXXXX  ------- 93310IMC IS AN ARENA OF COLLECTIVE SOULS.. (english) by Arena of Wherever You will Go 1:07am Wed Nov 21 '01 IMC IS AN ARENA OF COLLECTIVE SOULS.. Each one reaching out in Quest For the Impossible Dream Awakening... Now Awaken To Project Guillotine's Evolution Revolution ------------- bingo (english) Faira 7:15am Sat Jul 12 '03 comment#331957 Have you lost your mind? Are you related to Savage? ------------- I go: 

331945 continued hey can I join ya???? (english) piet 7:27am Sat Jul 12 '03 comment#331962 I've just posted to a message board where one particular word I used 3 times was replaced with ####s That's no more than the decent thing to do I guess, as long it's the only word they don't tolerate. Here's the whole thing, these guys already live a system change; the good thing about their cryptic styles and numeracy levels is they don't waste a lotta words but I feel their code is on a runaway track The state of my understanding as regards prophecies, plans of action, pinpointers of culprits, calenders and the bottom line for all 'time' concepts and rhythms (best taken to stand, tick and pass for/as rock if you ask me).   ----------- Can't juggle numbers cause I know better (than most what countless really means). ----------- Divinatory and calender work (recently saw a cute but popular and trendily gendergap focused account of the meaning and possible purpose of Stonehenge (Lionel Sims thinks it was to harmonize outdated matri moon/mama hunting related nomadism with patri modern settled poppies with (solar) orientation and with brood 'rewarded' for their hard work 'mongst the annuals  by making sun and moon to be seen travelling through adjacent windows ((and so semi-cooperatively)) at ceremonial times)which reminds me of the mumbo jumbo, sleighs of hand and chemistry tricks shamen have gained power over their subjects with since mankinds bonding went far beyond mating interests, the latter subjected to the former rather). -------------- It seems to me all preachy people suffer that universal obsession of (and despotic desire for) universality. A worldwide weepademic if you ask me. I have a question that weighs heavy on my mind, and not just since reading about Star Sparks suicide in jail pending a trial over his trafficking in narcotics (why is there no discussion of drugs here much? Is that all delegated to the 2012 McKenna crowd???) and much more burdensome by things like RINRI PROJECT NEWSLETTER PHASE II THE PHOENIX EDITION (at a japanese site; google only started indexing it recently but it is 2 years old) since seeing that sort of thing, a rant with completely inconsistent theme switches, extreme crypticisms and helluva range in style mixtures remind me of the mumbo jumbo shamen have gained power over their subjects with since mankinds bonding went far beyond mating interests (the latter subjected to the former rather), a mixed blessing at best. Incoherent prophecies are a dime a dozen, check and (talk about rainbow art here!) for examples I found recently; the excentrically eclectic extent to which speculations of all makes get jumbled hoppered and thrown together is appaling; all are after that universal obsession of universality. A worldwide weepademic if you ask me. So, what about drugs? How come it is taboo? Shamen owe not little to their influence. And in turn, demography up fucking (or fuck upping) fear of god is never far behind from which militance is born. This army building, responsible (but not accountable) for female selection gone haywire (slipped into selection of as opposed to by females)and you have the bulk of internet activity vs (lil ol homeopathically pervasion, high dilution stretched out far and little in between) me ('mijn persoontje' as my dad used to say, the bill of a feed for all who borrowed some colour cooler concepts over the last few years is not one very many people can pay or am I delusional too? Oprah's mag maker uppers were at it and Kamagurka painted before I installed myself in the A'dam spiderweb well hung or should I say weighed down and ineffective since it is laden and coated) with the dusts from ages and regions like few others, dusts from white supremacy of keeping a civil semi-social face - no less make believe than the bulk of priestly mis(a)chief(ments). But hell, even the few other rockdust as only/best/timelies means of respect payment sites seem to feel I sully the cause and keep me out of linklists etc. Quite per-plep-xing (plep is the most eclectic blog I know and only one where I grace the linklost, so big you get list in it). So, y2k didn't kill artificial time but you will. Well, guess what, it would amount to suicide for you, youâ??d be nowhere without modern transportation and communication, and besides, if you did win I bet the proliferation of intricately closeknot rhythms that sprout yet more of them would be the sort of runaway inflation we know well already. Just what we always wanted, more complex and less viable code; junk dna does exist you know but you are after the equivalent in 100 Rolls Royces in Artwork. Emotional hysterics in cleverness disguise for appearances sake, thatâ??s what you wanna leave and count on my focus, to 'leave' rock, relieve manmade barenness, releaf rock to just sorta happen as a side effect, a subjunct .. . . well I'd be happy if that were the case but .. .. . . The physics at/of the decisive and/or (and or or divide) should be left out of collectivities, sentient cleavages and policies, to make 'em personal is to sully the social with fanaticism. Most searches for fallacies and flaws leave 'most windows of invitation' slip into the cracks of the overlooked/discarded (cornerstone overtone) faultline . .. .no wrong the are those and that's where invitation/decision lies, in the decidedly oblivious wait/for us there, us their treasonous delegates and/or prodigal offspring. Why do I compare Arguelles to a string a slew a stereo- and archetypical range of peculiar performers??? Well, he tours for one thing(not even Kantian humility in that). Another telltale is his compulsion to work the for or(, not the for and) against valve no less than GWBush and Jesus in his sadder and more maddening moments. In the exterritorial fields of universals this is not allowed but outlawed and with good reason. Working the schizo switch has become a very refined and heavily invested (and infested) area of human attention/endeavour (I am not going to quite say achievement yet). I feel Arguelles hasn't got his tuned rite and aimed good enough to work it overtime (or should I say overtone? Where do time and tone harmonize? In the opening of rock which in my book is the incredibly urgent harrowing of hollow hell) like he does. He does save the best for last don't he? The seven years of mysterious stone (or mystery stones I forget). - gave me a whiff of how Jose's attempts to complete and keep pace with his own schedule seems to compel him to duely choose and adress (not just the squatting crowd amongst whom I sat as his audience some years ago) those sufficiently high rating ones up the old pecking order, to 'save time' I guess, haahaahaha. That this comes across as imposition to those skeptical or competing for co-optation is no surprise and seems to have been the case over a concert in Chiapas, were the blacks displeased (blaaskakerig verbolgen) over not being alloted/assigned to man the cockpiet instrewments? No they aint in hurry to start harrowing the hollowness from their homemade humdrum hell but I am you escape artists, you fucks!! So, change rock and you change time, give an outcrop near you a chance and a change. ------------Nice post (says Galactic Wind!) It prompted deep thought . . .--------------- SACRED NUMBERS ~ 666 ~ 6 = 6 2 x 6 = 12 3 x 6 = 18 4 x 6 = 24 (Elder Futhark) 5 x 6 = 30 6 squared = 36 (Fractal of the Tun) 2 x 6 squared = 72 (Names of God in Hebrew) 3 x 6 squared = 108 (Buddha Buddha Buddha) 8 x 6 squared = 288 (Light Harmonic of Earth) 13 x 6 squared = 468 6 to the power of 3 = 216 (2x 108 , 6x6x6) 2 x 6 to the power of 3= 432 3 x 6 to the power of 3 = 648 6 to the power of 4 = 1,296 2 x 6 to the power of 4 = 2,592 In my search to understand the vast sprials of time in ancient culture I have realised the above . . . it is interesting to concider that the Kali Yuga core number of 432,000 is part of this series and also the number 108 Yuga (Great Age) (4th) Kali Yuga = 432,000 years (3rd) Dvapara Yuga 2 x 432,000 = 864,000 years (2nd) Treta Yuga 3 x 432,000 = 1,296,000 years (1st) Satya or Krita Yuga 4 x 432,000 = 1,728,000 years 4 Yuga = 1 Maha-yuga = 10 Kali-yuga = 4,320,000 Years 432 + 234 = 666 Greenfire? Lucifer? Still deep in the Timeship Manitou . . . how are your time vector potentialities over there? Found here;a ct=ST;f=1;t=241;st=140 If you care for numbers like these go to: earthmatrix.comThis essay posted in a thread under the title 'RAINBOW' in the message boards of, haven for fabulators and escapissed artists: ffe340415ffff;act=ST;f=10;t=216;st=0 Discussion that isn't related directly to the calendar change, but is still of interest. ------- postscript: christ!!! I find out the earthmatrix guy actually believes the very same Pakal image Arguelles touts and who's very being he lays claim to, is taken to be the diagram of . . .you guessed it .. .an astronaut!!! How can someone who makes so much levelheaded sense on their calender go so crazy with a bloated ruler's supposed mobility???? -- proof positive mathematics x imagination is a seriously explosive cocktail --------------------- /maya/maya-3.html choose from 5 background colours 'for accesibility readers'!?!?!? --------------- 

Next in the thread called 'RAINBOW': (only previous part of which ((above)) crossposted to indy)- 'envy'? '258'? Could you be a little more cryptic please??? I ain't got time nor tools to divine (whatever you put/read into) all that. 'mystified'? No I don't mystify people on purpose. On the contrary, I try to (mentally) show 'm that mistification of rock and water is the action all the dreamspell poetry and crypticity shouldawouldacould lead up to if they ever stop being addicted to the fabulous cargo cultoid 'probing'. It's a telltale symptom to find that THE most busy threads around here. Not so far from the diagnosis crowd after all are ya?? I'll look at your site too and get back to you. Thanks for trying but do it a little harder, go ahead, I promise not to let you hurt me more than you have done. So, are the one with the partner that referred to her dutch language skills on this board before? Are you protective of her mayhap? Frankly, I don' see any use for the formal rigidity of prescribed poetry and very cryptic at that; I agree that brevity is a virtue and that it suffices but what if it goes horrible wrong and fail their purpose/target yet again to remains stuck in symbol signpost and what have you in other flavors abstractions; sure, fine tuned i ching is great at all this but the gif you link to makes me nervous (and the linked flash don't work by the way) - I much prefer the last page in a series on the i-ching at tortuga (the 260 worked into a yin yang i-ching, very elegant). Rock is formal enough and the purpose is to see/find/make merits of it set aflow and up to intricate come true in practice rather than or close behind in words. Numberlessness is the real thing math is only flexing for and pining after. That clear enough for ya? Ps: Heybore is a crazy old man who likes painting like a toddler would, he is just proud it pays his bills. Oh, by the way, here's directions for the European edition of this year's Rainbow Gathering -- in the pyrenees (southern france) Welcome to the 21st European Rainbow gathering in France 22 july - 22 august in the pyrénnées - orientales ***** please bring : Peace; blankets, tents, bowl, spoon, cup warm clothes, creativity, mosquitos net, tarps, spices, kitchen pots, children support, tools, music, visions dreams, love and light .. do not bring: alcohol, drugs, dogs, violence, electric-equipment, meat products, plastics ******* A COMPLETELY NON COMMERCIAL HAPPENING **** location : west of Perpignan ->(dir.) Foix -> Axat -> (dir.)mont -Louis ->escouloubres -> (dir.) querigut -> LE PLA -> small road to : refuge de Laurenti -> signs to the parking -> camp 30mns easy walk, from Foix take ->Ax les thermes ->mijanes -> le Pla... ********* we need 4x4 or donkies or horses to bring food supply beautiful Nature take care of wild life, flowers, and trees rainbow family from France see you soon in harmony tel possible: akim 06 23 74 39 70 gerard 04 66 85 12 55

enki of devotes his first post for the boards to a new thread as reply for my 6th one at 19=260 in general questions, I in turn go: Thanks for your interest (in defending your cause which nevertheless remains obscure since I have as yet to use paypal for the first time, haven't the means (credit card) to pay my server, etc and so can't find out why or how you would defend cowardly snipers of any stripe or colour let alone calling them great warriors; zulu's used all sorts of potions and if the redcoats hadn't had the gunjams they 'suffered' things would have been different and even less fair fighting). --------- My question is simply: When did the 'bible code' get popularized and was this Rashad's inspiration or was it vica versa (not that it matters much to me, I consider this line of 'enquiry' gratuitous, a forced and all too willful way of finding synchronicities, a lowering of the validity threshold, a poor and too wide setting of criteria specs allowing associtations to be made too fast and furious, too loose, comprende?????) -------- Ps: in your next turn of conversation with me could you supply the url of where you found this comment of mine - I am unable to retrieve it since the search engine can't even find the word bunkum (ps: my mistake)------- Here's what I wrote since -(snipped; here pageups away)- and there is a fresh load of pondering all this in a thread called rainbow for those of you not despairing of being able to get what i mean:  ----- this was also posted as 4th comment on a main indy thread which starts out thusly: Regime no 1, Regime no 2 , Regime no 3 , Regime no 4.....and so it goes on.... (english) Anti-Pokemon 6:14am Sat Jul 12 '03 (Modified on 7:27am Sat Jul 12 '03) article#331945 Why? Why replace one regime with another one. If George W Bush leaves the office, another criminal will take his place. Its the system you have to change. ----------- 3rd commenter is a black buddy of mine ---------- a few comments later:  your one before last paragraph belies and almost negates whatever you said elsewhere (to me mothers and motherships are really a function fabulatrice apart) which makes me wonder what you mean when you say: "You will find the craft of the true poet comes not over night." ------- Are you referring to the space- variety thereof? In that case I can say I care not for such craft. ---------- In hopes we can get (and cooperate on getting) all whites (and whitey ways) out of africa and all blacks back into it 

TO A TORTUGAN AT EVERGREEN COLLEGE:  hullo podner; how's that University Library holding up there? I wish to specifically know the paintquality on the 4 story high peripheral staircase coming out onto the roof (on which I camped a few weeks in the eighties). When was the most recent mural put on and can you refer me to or send any pics of it??? ------------------- Poetpiet, The library clocktower staircase? I don't have pics for you but Be more specific and I'll check it out. Do you mean the stairwell mural of Quetzecoatl done by Jose's class in !972? PlanetarySeed ------------------ yeah that it!!!! Sigh (of relief); good thing it is still there. I'd love to know if it already lives around the net somewhere or if it could be made to do so. Thanks for getting back to me. Ps: you wouldn't happen to know deena, talbot and yarrow (their daughter, they made candles for a while, live in Olympia (O leary road or something, right on a tidewater close to the bakery where evergreen organizes races through them which I won one of) and I lost touch widdem sadly).  ------------ HIS NEXT ANSWER IS UNCANNY, LOOK FOR IT HERE LATER

some wondrous stuff I found while main and about a fourth of the indy sites were down due to a bad harddisk (see dc item 76159 about that, afterdribbles at main 331808): made 20 times as long by 164 comments (on friday) - the piece already frequently alluded to here by Naeim Giladi gets a follow up amongst which Livia Rokach's 'Israel's sacred terrorism' is mentioned (which makes it twice in this file)

madison: newswire/display/12993/index.php Green, growing . .. and growing ------ 13123+39 Army trashed in Milwaukee

Ireland adds unworkable but luckily identical for each item code behind their urls, quite reflective of the laborious yet shades of shokal shedding 'content' at newswire.php?story_ID=60340 -------- 60366 is informative on travellers rainbow/earth first flavor spirit in Holland! 04/11401+29 exceptional amount of religiously pc comments on communism perhaps an idea to go see what's up there ---- 

I suspect there are plenny parallels between the benefit and harm for both gayness and anonymity - I tend to lean toward declining both but I am declining in age too so that don't mean much. 

WORKER SHARPENED + worker seized WORKS OUT TO worker eased; competition opened, humane humanity and culture as indiginousness restored 

dc 76825+14 dc feature on dc by zoe

76830+14 Irish "bombmaker" story just more Zionist propaganda J16 

76413 on soldiers 

76776+13 How I became an 'unconscious fascist' by Fiamma Nirenstein 10:39pm Tue Jul 15 '03 (Modified on 9:45pm Wed Jul 16 '03) The left has proved itself the real cradle of contemporary anti-Semitism. 

76714+13 a rich item with satire, voting machines and Amy Goodman critique

76535+10 Palestinians confirm no massacre in Jenin - study by By JOEL LEYDEN 4:24pm Mon Jul 14 '03 (Modified on 4:46pm Wed Jul 16 '03) Funny how the terrorists themselves have now admitted the "Jenin massacre" is a lie before the folks at antiwar, IMC, ANSWER, ISM, etc..... --- we find out dc has a pro-israeli state editor and her attempts to civilize Ken yield results

76467+14 patriot perk spam

76466+13 Wash post on Infoshop (no replies to this article posted on the lbo list)
Pretty much the longest thread at lbo-talk from that list over the past week was called 'my gay makeover' -- as always Chuckie Grimes trails behind with one of the few substantial as well as worthwile contributions: I think it is an interesting problem to figure why a revolt against gender which is an implicit attack on the prevailing social order, doesn't necessarily comprehend a more radical attack of the socio-economic system and its politically oppressive dimensions. To channel Catherine for a moment, I think she might maintain it does, but not in a way that is certified as `political' by the predominately hetro-male culture that dominates radical political culture. In other words, the onus is on the Left to comprehend the culture of gender, not the other way around. I would probably agree, but hold out for the idea that gender politics needs a heavier dose of left radicalism, while at the same the Left needs a more articulated understanding of gender. Certainly, if the `personal is political' then a counter-culture of gender should by rights be a natural ally of progressive and leftist movements. And yet, that is not quite how it has turned out. In the SF Bay area I would say that there is an odd gender difference between the established Gay, and the Lesbian culture's political dynamics were the women tend to be more consistently political, and more politically progressive than the men. I say odd, because at face value it would seem that gender politics would not have a gender difference in the political realm, and yet they do. What I find interesting about the difference between Gay and Lesbian counter-cultures here, is they exist in completely different worlds. They are not different versions of the same revolt, but entirely different sorts of revolts. And of course this isn't to say that both are monolithic. In fact as time goes on, the early 70s unanimity of both has dissolved to such an extent that I suspect both are having difficulty maintaining any uniform community position at all. There are a lot of ways to dissect these differences, but of the gay and lesbian friends I've had, I would say the women would tend to show up to a left political demo or take on both leadership and support roles in political movements much more readily than the men. And after thinking about it a little, I am not sure I can explain why. Chuck Grimes ----- ps. all of these impressions are based on personal friendships and can be completely skewed by another oddity, which is that I have had more women friends who were lesbian, than men friends who were gay. ----------- an afterdribble of that thread started by Kelley: and same by chuck again: -------- stars up again a day or so later: ------ a single (though related) post (called 'queer eye') by Kelley: I am annoyed that the "culture queen" was, so far, represented by a black man or Latino. I mean, it's great that they tried to have a little diversity but I find the tendency to find "culture" in people of color a kind of racializing erasure of the whiteness against which people of color have this "culture." It doesn't come off this way in the show, though. I think, though, that it was so fast-paced, so chaotic--hopping from closet organization, to bathroom filth, to kitchen organization, and quick let's go shopping, too--that it was like a Bugs Bunny cartoon. They didn't really do all that work by themselves and in one day, right? That closet alone would have taken me an entire weekend. Of course, I loved the smutty humor from Conrad was it? "I just love designer meat." "Show us on the doll all the places where the bad man touched you." This show did not have the flagellation/redemption theme going on. Obviously, this is, in part, because the gaze of the Queer Eye was invited, not thrust upon them by family and friends as in What Not to Wear. Even so, in Faking It, the flagellation/redemption theme is quite evident, even though the subject has invited the experience and is aware, hostilely so, that s/he is not a cheerleader or sommelier. In Faking It, the narrative is about breaking down an individual's pathology. She has built an identity on hating "cheerleaders" (signifying sexy women who wear make up and are probably not very smart); he is Mr Beer, in part, because he resists wine snobbery (signifying cultural snobbery more generally). IOW, the implicit claim in these shows is that they each embrace an identity built on unfairly reviling an Other--a sentiment borne out of jealousy. (Reminds me of claims that critiques of class society are really about jealousy.) By contrast, it wasn't like the Fab 5 could storm into these two guy's homes and tell them something that they didn't already know. They knew they were slobs already. But there was no blaming of the individual from the Fab 5, no confessionals behind the scenes of the student shaking her fist at the unloving and unforgiving Fashion Deities. In Queer Eye there was no critical distance that Liza describes in the BBC make over shows. No rejection of the advice as "just not me" or the wacky ideas of a fashion diva. Queer Eye was all about accepting the criticism and advice toward the goal of, in one case, launching a career and, in the other, helping this guy win the love of a woman who, I dunno, doesn't seem at all interested in him as anything but a boy an ice queen can ridicule, even after the make over. It was interesting that some of the commentary suggested an uncritical acceptance of style and beauty as about making other men jealous because women think you're hot. Surprise! Kelley ---this is what she's good at, the unprincipled beaty rules ex- and implicatress, our very own gutsyest gal (who knows what men really want); here's another one: compare to the reply (next in thread) by in some respects if not all appearance, heady enough to hold her own lady who gets abreast lengthwise but it'll take a click to find out if she gets even or who gets bested by whom 

[lbo-talk] Co-opting Solidarity: Privilege in the Palestine Solidarity Movement -- archives/2-2002/solomon.html > ------------ ChuckO: Onward magazine should be read with a large salt shaker. It frequently contains alot of liberal political correctness masqueradin as radical political analysis. ---------- Actually, it's worth reading. You see, when I read articles like this one, I think, "Well, as a heterosexual white male with a university degree, a steady job, and a mortgage, with all kinds of privilege and status, and all kinds of oppressive strategies and discourses being deployed on my behalf that I probably don't even know about, I guess I have no place at _all_ in anything remotely progressive." Saves me a lot of trouble. --------- Michael Pugliese: Chuck, did you read the piece, which critiques pseudo-left PC masquarding as radical praxis? Here is a snippet I just sent to the one of the ufpj lists, as a reply to the Yoshiebot > ...On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:39:57 -0400, Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: ... (Did anyone notice that few Arab and/or Muslim delegates, much less Palestinian delegates, attended the UFPJ conference in Chicago? Are there any Palestinian activists on this listserv?... ----------- Michael Pugliesebot:  Something that was mentioned in, ..Not every U.S. activist involved in Palestinian solidarity efforts is acting in ways accountable to Palestinians and others involved in the movement. These activists often occupy privileged locations of identity whiteness and, more often than not, WASPiness and class privilege. Such activists may plan actions supposedly on behalf of Palestinians yet structured around agendas other than what might actually be useful to Palestinian people. For example, activists may initiate (or attempt to initiate, the more common occurrence in April in DC) illegal, potentially high risk activities that could endanger Muslims, Arabs and South Asians in the area, generally at a much higher risk than, for example, white goy anarchists. High risk actions for Palestine are not acceptable when privileged activists organize them without discussion with Muslim and Arab groups, particularly when there was no call for such activities from Muslim, Arab and South Asian groups. Such situations especially occur in contexts where majority white and goy groups claiming to be pro-Palestinian liberation activists have little to no relationship or communication with South Asian, Arab and Muslim communities in general. Many white goy activists autonomously plan pro-Palestinian actions they think sound cool, without any familiarity with the work already done by Arab, Muslim and South Asian activists groups or how they could usefully plug in. Such activists act in ways unaccountable to the people they are supposedly with. Non-Palestinians engaging in solidarity work must support Palestinians, not use the Palestinian solidarity movement as an opportunity to advance their own (conscious or unconscious) agendas. A dangerous trend emerging here, which has emerged over and over in radical movement, is activism as co-optation, not in solidarity. In the 60s and early 70s the Black Panther Party was exoticized by white U.S. activists who got pleasure from their edgy Similar dynamics can be seen today with white radicals in the globalization movement fixing their colonial gaze upon yet another oppressed and group... -- -- ------------- Yoshie: I realize that the above article really caught your fancy, but attending the conference isn't an illegal high-risk activity, so it is not relevant in this context. The dearth of Arab and/or Muslim delegates (to say nothing of Palestinian delegates) at the UFPJ conference in Chicago simply means, in my opinion, that UFPJ has work harder to increase their participation (as well as participation of Black activists, another underrepresented but crucial constituency). BTW, you may not have noticed, but I'm not white -- you are. ---------- MP: As an Italian-American, I'm writing a Italian version of David Roediger's, "How The Irish Became White." Read, "Race Traitor, " magazine y'all and abolish the white race! It is long overdue. And, btw, Italian-American were also interned in WWII. A recent book from a university press details this, which I'd never heard before, not even from my Italian relatives in Pittsburgh, whose heavily invested in Italian identity and conservative Catholicism, was one major factor in driving me away from too much of an identity rooted in parochial, ethno-religious factors and towards the secular left. And, may not have noticed that you are Japanese? Pluueze. That would be as hard as not recognizing that Eugene Genovese is an Italian name. And, noticed, that you didn't have that snotty last line on the ufpj reply to me. Michael Pugliese ------ Yosh: I'm not about to let a white person accuse me of white privilege _twice_ on two different listservs! From now on, you are consigned to the trash file again. I hope you'll desist from cyber-stalking. -- ----- MP: Now what the fuck is that supposed to mean? That I can't reply to Yoshie on a list that she is on too? Leninist LLP=Left Face of State Capitalist Arrogance, Inc. -------- Grant: Michael, I was disappointed with that article's lack of recognition of another kind of "privilege", i.e economic class, _within_ national/ethnic struggles, whether this is represented by the Palestinian bourgeoisie, or native American and African American entrepreneurs, to cite quite different examples. regards ------------ MP: Yes, that was an ellision in the analysis. One strength of Old Left marxism, often forgotten was it's suspicion of nationalism for it's occlusion of class domination. For not genuflecting towards nationalist romanticizing of an undivided people historians like Hobsbawm get rubbished on other internet "marxist" fora that in theory declaim against Stalinist two stage theories (first the national democratic revo under the "leadership" of a mythical "national bourgeoisie" then later the socialist revo, which, in the last instance, never occurs, but, whenever, in the real world, an actual revolution occurs under the strict control of a M-L vanguard party (think of the FSLN or FMLN, after reading speeches to party militants by such as Tomas Borge, and then remember the agitprop to credulous liberals in the 80's attempting to hide the radical intent as if the Ortgega brothers were little more than liberal Democrats in a hurry) the discipling of the working class and peasantry to the demands of int'l. capital can be implemented under the logic of the need for national unity. -- Michael Pugliese --- skipping one of Grant's ----- MP: Projection city, goin' on there! If you saw my post of an excerpt from the anarchist critique of a very white pro-Palestine movement, as primarily meant to "correct you" who I've never seen, nor do I think the majority here do, over the years, as ever being one to relent on your dogmatism and hectoring style, I've long ago thought that anything I can say or suggest in terms of other readings or approaches, would influence you or any other Proyectite (except a few like Jurrian Bendian or Dave Walters) but, as my attempt, to impart to those less indoctrinated in the peculiar irreality and taboos of leninist discourse in an USA context which, when leninists have exercised hegemony on the mass activist left, has always ended up in further marginalization and such bizarre, sordid tales as Maoists in the October League calling for supporting the placing of the NATO Euromissiles. 

Related links via the intentional community list:

Mosaic Communities Multi-National Housing Co-ops in Israel

Encounter-EMEM for Middle East Peace Activists - Encounter, Musadafa, Encuentro, Mifgash. Networking about Palestine-Israel peace activities around the world: Visit the Encounter Website at

ActLeft - Announcements only, of Middle East peace activities in Israel-Palestine:

Jewish Peace News (JPN)

Arabs and Jews seeking peace - a moderated email discussion:

Middle East peace information and opinions exchange - not moderated:

What can you do for Israel/Palestine peace? Check out Ariga's Israeli-Palestinian Human Rights and Peace Groups and

Ta'ayush - Arab-Jewish Partnership

Sign the "Our Jerusalem, Capital of Two States" petition of Gush Shalom.

Peace Now Israel: American Friends:


Want to know what's really going on in the occupied territories?

"But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and then denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." -- WWII Nazi Leader Hermann Goering ----------------  The opposing sides are as follows: Jews and Palestinians who want to live together in peace, respect and equality as opposed to Jews & Palestinians who want exclusive control of all the resources between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. - Tamar Yaron 

Message: 2 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:07:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacob Eberhardt Subject: Twelve Tribes Have any of you met the Twelve Tribes communities? They are a tribal network of intentional communities modeled after the communities in the biblical account of Acts. I am an ex-member, yet my experience there has prompted me to consider the accomplishments of IC's and their solutions for our current social services, especially homelessness. Anyway, I have posted the actual teachings in my possession to a yahoo group: Twelve_Tribes_Teachings/ If anyone is interested in viewing their 'esoteric' teachings versus their 'exoteric' material (website, freepapers). Jacob 

Who deserves to be mourned in America? part II (english) Justin Raimondo & Joseph Hines 11:16pm Wed Jul 16 '03 article#332900 (a reply to -230) Was the settlement of white colonists on Native-American land a just and beautiful cause? If so, what are we to make of the Israeli Zionists' attempted colonization of Palestine? alternate: ---- SEE: Who deserves to be mourned in America? part I by Justin Raimondo & Goh Joon -- I add an excerpt from the USGen Web project and a link to the next section: (us genweb project) 
332863 (sick, sardonic Art about ongoing doom and life's last spasms against it)

332909 agent skully type post (conspiracy, without links to the group operated under that name) --- I go (added to hawaii 3158 too: no matter how 'multigenerational', evil would not burgeon, prosper and command such vast swaths of earth's territories maiming as many as it pleases if the even more multiple but as yet tiny little leaks which nursing, phys and head ed, rites of passage, rates, proportions, locations as well as allocations of demography sprung, did not accumulate into ( . . . 'them' ((of course)) - forgot that word on the item). -- When privacy is all about concealment rather than generation of basic needs we will never have true populism or fair politics, I mean we won't stand a chance in frozen hell to integrate journalism advertizing and politics 

33276+6 on Chomsky -- 

pr likes Peter Arshinov (on Mahkno) and 'Durruti;the people armed.' by Abel Paz. 


332456 More Rubbish British "Intelligence" Rowan Berkeley - The summary (the only part in his own words if I remember correctly): Not content with generating phantom shipments of yellowcake uranium(and to be fair, the cable supposedly reporting this stuff was probably planted on the hapless Brits by those fiends at Mossad), British "Intelligence" have also snitched on a Gaelic language enthusiast as being a bomb making "terrorist". Apologies are not particularly likely, given the anonymity of these idiotic people. -------pr chimes in with some case of similarly fabricated rot in Saudi Arabia ----- haven't posted this but I would say that anonymity, the more it is paradoxically personal (the more one turns the personal into ghostlike godlike, traceless, watertight, etc, power rather than realizing the term anonymity can only be applied to the highl diffuse yet identical, the truely massive, the mix that can answer to one just as little to all names) the less is the 'owner' of it to subject such non-entity to responsible qualms and scrutinies of conscience unless on the contrary he regards it as a magic black hole to dump these very in at times and at others at liberty to turn it around aim it and suck up some sustenance through it as if it were a straw at the fair. In short, with it, one can amputate but it makes the wielder of this means an amputatee long before that.

332444 Eugene conference ( I see new sites in their linklist)

-444+9 (2 by RW) on holocaust by Hajime Tokuno (a Res. Fellow who does 4 comments also) --- 3135 hawaii chalks up 23 comments to this article) ----- -09+3 same topic;RW goes: I Have The Stomach To Read David Duke (english) Rowan Berkeley 12:48am Tue Jul 15 '03 comment#332471 I'm kinda strong-stomached, I guess... I did find something that made me feel a bit queasy, yesterday; it purported to be a "declassified secret psychoanalytic report on Hitler". The fact that it was printed (on the web-site of a certain Dr Stein) between bright red side columns made it even harder to read all through. You don't have to be a psychoanalyst to realise that those bright red side columns produce Oedipal anxiety in the reader, since to the unconscious they resemble the walls of the forbidden vagina of the mother. The actual report speculated that Hitler might have been the illegitimate grandson of Baron Rothschild. They said this might explain his interest in power politics. ----------- -361+15 same topic -- pr goes: Kick all the aint-semitic crap off. (english) pr 7:20pm Mon Jul 14 '03 comment#332417 As a regular here since 2001 I support modeRATion to stem the sewage being pumped here by Amerikkkan nazi's.They should all be suspended,(by piano wire?)until they cease and desist with their racist crap.If the don't they should be barred.This is not censorship for they can goosestep off to stormfront or fork their own indy distro. This is simple self defence;you nazi pigs will never expunge yr stinking record of mass murder.You are serial killers and you make me sick.Go follow yr Fuhrer Mark Seely and blow yr rotten brains out. ---- RW goes: Cherchez La Moolah (english) Rowan Berkeley 12:56am Tue Jul 15 '03 comment#332473 "Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president. Then an American Zionist brought him two million dollars in cash, in a suitcase, aboard his whistle-stop campaign train. 'That's why our recognition of Israel was rushed through so fast.' As neither Jack nor I was an antisemite (unlike his father and my grandfather) we took this to be just another funny story about Truman and the serene corruption of American politics." --- Gore Vidal You won't see THAT in the goddam "Guardian", which is where the story about Truman's diaries came from, so as usual mosta youse are completely missing the point, which is colloquially expressed by the query, "How did this ELEPHANT get into the LIVING ROOM?" 

-357 Firestorm over Film depicting US soldiers as thieves and drug users (english) From Drudge Report 1:52pm Mon Jul 14 '03 The film's director Gregor Jordan describes SOLDIERS as a robust satire illustrating the corruption, drug use and violence that goes on in US Army bases. 

-291 ????? German mag not really much of anything yet

-317 Death Penalty Saves Lives! Scientific Study Finds That Executions Deter Murders. (not well received by all 4 commenters; here's one:) - Fucking Preserves Viginity (english) Michael McGehee 4:40pm Mon Jul 14 '03 comment#332383 A recent commentor on an article of mine is the inspiration behind this and oddly relative to this article. I need to find a new "liberal model" that can predict how many virgins there will be based on how many virgins we fuck in any given week. This will help prevent pregnancies and STD's. Anyone caught not fucking will be tried as a fucker. ----------- The analysis (english) Brian 5:43pm Mon Jul 14 '03 comment#332398 Multivariate (or factor) analysis is a total fiction, unless the proportion of the results not explained by the factor analysis is also reported. >snip< 

-347 Thousands Surround Prison in Support of Political Prisoner Jose Bove (english) Frenchy O'Brian 12:50pm Mon Jul 14 '03 (Modified on 4:56pm Mon Jul 14 '03) Huge Demo, Lots of Noise, We surrounded the prison (almost), tagged the walls with graffitti, had a good time in the afternoon sun. 


-236+6 on libertarianism - pr jumps on it predictably enough, twice even

-230 Raimondo on Indians (reply at -900

-228 a Seeley item - excertping one of Arena's comments: Hey Mark ol' Insect ie read a pretty in pink piet back of the rack "Hey,clueless" posts, or an archive read of Izsidor REX & his bureau boyz or the enegmatic Proffr1 & his Anarcho $1.00 OSD-R.A.T.S Bet Of Bets There Numbers Man! 

-202+6 this item tries to give pot a bad name scientifically but gets short shrift from the commmenters

-153+48!! Bush believer Ken brings out the best of the rest (or maybe just the testiness) fingertapping away about the untappable

at someone comments on Stewart Home's review of Q the italian novel on subversive culture (translation online free) with a pointer to what he feels is a better one: 

  some more

333114 "Left": Stop Saying Quagmire! (english) Michael McGehee 9:39pm Thu Jul 17 '03 (Modified on 11:38pm Thu Jul 17 '03) It is getting as old as "word to yo' mutha" and "whazzzzup!" There are other words to use. Expand your language capacity, pick up a fucking thesaurus and/or dictionary. How about dilemma, entanglement, fix, hole, imbroglio, impasse, involvement, jam, mire, morass, muddle, pass, perplexity, pickle, pinch, plight, predicament, quandary, scrape and trouble. Pick one! -------- 3rd commenter = me: and oh, just one more thing dear bush admin. (english) piet 11:38pm Thu Jul 17 '03 comment#333138 don't you stuckin believe you can pull other nations into this . . .eh close approximation 'stage setsting' of hell on earth in urban settings . . . .. or pull out without convert forces to get 'm set to decently repair all damage done for a long term payment plan to be payed in solarly generated energy. --- this applies to dc 76413+33 (same topic, ain't read it yet) also

Melbourne 50608 Michael Pugliese (LBOer) sends me to Melbourne Indy (article on Liberia) I find pr needs a lawyer: 50608

49415+57 Neo-Fascists at the Melbourne Underground Film Festival by Shane Lyons --- also see 50335+21

332913 yet more terrible terrible news (since nobody that matters at the moment realizes the implications of it) by

333247 Distributed systems are more powerful (english) Jody Paulson 11:01am Fri Jul 18 '03 (Modified on 9:11pm Fri Jul 18 '03) address: Ft. Wayne, IN, USA  This is a techie/political/philosophical musing in hopefully non-techie language. A recent post by the Arena guy (332735 -- Piet: quite unlike the one cited earlier in this file; they are pastes about stochasticism and what not) got me thinking about Neural Networks again (I was going to do my thesis on using Artificial Neural Networks in Geography when a crisis forced me out of school). I was re-reading a page from F.J. Pineda's course notes when I encountered the following table comparing the brain with a computer.

dc 77167 global free press on David Kelly's life in the biochemical arms industry -- they really gather the spins spun on this one - I haven't seen a Larouche flavor fulmination yet for some odd reason. ------------------ 333402 parenthetical ref to 332456 

333409+5 takers for the prophecy topic (2 by RW) ---------------

333408+8 (Arena puts in 5) MURDER BY POODLE: Blair, Straw, Campbell, Hoon in the line of fire (english) DAILY MIRROR -- best comment: Remember "Open Verdict"? (english) stuart 12:30pm Sat Jul 19 '03 comment#333448 It reminds me of the stories in "Open Verdict" by Tony Collins: an account of 25 mysterious deaths in the UK's defense industry. (Nowadays it's so rare that a copy's for sale for $40 - at least 4 times what I paid for my copy about ten years ago: comments on the cases by Professor Colin Pritchard, see I'll always remember the weird cases like the "lady in the lake" who, according to British police, tied her wrists and ankles together and somehow staggered into a lake and drowned. And the guy who supposedly had a heart attack but for some reason made it look like he had killed himself... Then there were the fatal sexual experiments involving suffocation: after the book had been published, something similar happened to a British MP. By comparison with all these, the death of Dr David Kelly seems quite plausible as a case of suicide. The pressure he and his family was under was extraordinary; the initial evidence points to suicide; and I cannot think of any government or secret service that would gain any benefit at all from him dying right while the whole affair is in the limelight. Sorry folks, the conspiracy theorists don't get my vote this time. ------------------

333662 Palestine Solidarity Review -- 2 commenters severely criticise this rag and accuse it of being a mossad front trying to divide palestinians and the west --- I go: samson, the philistines over you!!!!!!!!!! that's what you get for having gotten a haircut hippie!!!! (samson was of course an exponent/model of muddying the waters to mix the message or compound irreconcilables); fuse what movers and shakers in/of israel are thinking to get away with repeating on the one hand with autonomous and natural strenght for those who stay well clear of that sort of expansionistic 'claimancy'. Even Karl Kraus who had an eye for the jewish leverage nose fell for using the completely embedded and ingrained 'philistine' (and all possible derivariammarianisms thereof) in order to characterize all less desirable traits of cliques he clashed with, irrespective of race. It's a bible thing and how long before that has worn out (of) the white, whitish and mixed evangelized subconscious of sundry races pray tell????? -------Ps: I'd like to hear more about what the commenters before me are driving at. -------PsII: here is a volley of conversation from my favorite list: LBO thread called 'Law Student With a History of Taking Left Turns' (title of a NYT article) holds this contribution:  The PLO has publicly been in favor of some sort of two-state deal with Israel since 1976, all of which Israel rejected out of hand till Oslo, for obvious reasons. Indeed, it was the fear of Palestinian moderation that led to Israel's dalliance with the precursors to Hamas, forthright rejectionists who openly wanted, and still want, to shove the Jews into the sea. Now *that's* something Sharon and Co. can understand. DP ----- after which it spins out to south east asia: Are you saying that you think that Ho Chi Minh was better than Nguyen Van Thieu, that Mao Zedong was better than Chang Kaishek, and that Kim Il Sung was better than Syngman Rhee? Brad DeLong ------ 5 contributions (amongst them is a borderline pedantic, verbose and certainly value drained dry but still academically speaking usefool one by 'Yours in Christ, Brian Siano' which everybody ignores) later: Or, to put it another way, the first three were native leaders of mass movements that defended their people against First World (primarily US) depredations and took harsh measures to promote modernization. The second triad lacked mass backing because they were corrupt agents of narrow First World interests. Given the choice, the first are to be preferred, although a libertarian socialist republic -- hardly possible under Western attack -- would have been preferable to any of them. ----------- the thread swings back to an earlier note; Nathan Newman: A bit of a stretch since all but the most extreme Palestinians would allow Jews to remain even if the whole "river to sea" area was made one country. The issue illustrates the difference between the Israeli extremists and the Palestinian extremists. If Israel annexes all of "Judea and Samarian", ethnic clensing is required since Jews would no longer be a majority, so a democratic Jewish state is impossible without ethnic clensing. Conversely, Palestinians can obtain a state they would politically dominate without ethnic clensing, so even the more militant groups generally state that the Jews would be free to stay even if a single state was established for the whole region. So attributing ethnic clensing-- the official policy of parties within the ruling Israeli government -- to Palestinians and their supporters is just inaccurate. Some Palestinian groups are anti-Jewish and want their expulsion, but it is not the official policy of almost any Palestinian groups. ---------------- Brad de Long (prominent blogger): I *know* that you are not as much of an idiot as this post suggests... ----------- nathan Newman (ditto): I so love being a moderate on the issue of Israel-Palestine. I get denounced as a Zionist and an anti-semite for supporting a two-state solution. But the unmistakeable reality is that the OFFICIAL position of the rightwing parties in the present Likud government is "transfer", while the OFFICIAL position of the main Palestinian groups is either two-state solutions, or, a single state where Jews are welcome to stay as individual citizens. Most Israelis do not support transfer, but since it is considered a politically acceptable position in Israeli society, it would seem bizarre that merely advocating a single state without expulsion of the Jews would be unacceptable, even if a non-starter for negotiations with Israel. --  ---------------- You do not understand, Nathan. The Ps are untermenschen, whose dispossession Does Not Matter, whose interests need not and should be taken into account. Their violence is Unforgiveable and Wicked. How dare they kill babies and old women? While that of the Israeli state is merely retaliatory and therefore OK. The Ps are Liars too, which is why you can't belief their official positions. Anyone who suggests that this is racist claptrap and an obviously specious double standard is an Idiot whose arguments do not deserve the dignity of a response. I hope we are clear on everything now, you self-hating Jew. (another SHJ) -------- nathan Newman But I'm not even Jewish, except in some liberal Reformism given my atheism and Protestant Mom. So that gets me charges of being an insensitive goy and SHJ, sometimes based on the same comments. Based on this post: log/archives/000804.shtml#000804, I ended up getting slammed with a mess of nasty comments and I ended up with a whole discussion, plus comments on the right of non-Jews to talk about Israel ----  Found a whole site called that has a whole identity group discussing the issues of half-breeds and their confused identity in American society. 000807.shtml#000807 All part of the fun of discussing the topic. -------------------- Sorry Nathan. Your angst makes you more Jewish than Kasha Varnishkes. You might as well get used to it. It's not so bad. You can feel superior to a lot of people. -------------- Oy vey! See Sander Gilman, "Jewish Self-Hatred: Anti-Semitism and the Hidden Language of the Jews." Torn at the Roots by Michael E. Staub, Columbia University Press, 2002. Quite sympatico w/ Jewish radical New left and left-liberalism, more broadly. review When Bad Analogies happen to Good People, 3.6 stars, June 11, 2003 Reviewer: (see more about me) from Edmonton, Alberta Canada Michael Staub has presented a somewhat unusual book at divisions within American Jews from the fifties to the mid-seventies. His book does not possess a formal conclusion, but consists of eight chapters and an introduction. The first looks at the struggle between communists and anti- communists and how they argued over the Holocaust and American racism. The next two discuss the growing divisions within American over civil rights, and the fourth looks at divisions over the Vietnam war. The fifth looks again at civil rights, the sixth looks at the rise of Radical Zionism, the seventh looks at debates over family and sexuality and the eighth looks at the brief life of the pro-peace group Breira. Staub concentrates on especially Jewish movements: non-Jewish organs such as Partisan Review or The New York Review of Books get little or no mention. The participants are often theologians and members of explicitly Jewish groups. Novelists such as Bellow, Malamud, Mailer or Singer get no mention, while Philip Roth is mentioned only in passing. This appears to me as a mistake, since these writers obviously have a lot to say about Jewish-black and Jewish-feminist relationships, the topic of his book. Moreover they strike me as far more influential and important than the theological debates and the small groups such as Jews for Urban Justice, the Radical Jewish Union, the Jewish Liberation Project, or even The Jewish Defence League that Staub concentrates on. Notwithstanding these eccentricities, Staub has still produced an interesting book. <<<snip>>>> -- Michael Pugliese ---------------------- Yoshie on the subject of Chris Hedges' NYTimes article (repeated at this point lbo-talk/current/1252.html in the thread): I know Charlotte Kates from a now defunct listserv Marxism-International hosted by the Spoon Collective, where I first met Doug Henwood, Jim Farmelant, Carrol Cox, Michael Hoover, Michael Yates, Michael Perelman, Louis Proyect, Rakesh Bhandari, Zeynep Tufekcioglu (and Rahul Mahajan via Zeynep), Jon Flanders, Dennis Redmond, Chris Burford, Louis Godena, the late Jim Blaut, the late Mark Jones, etc. (Zeynep, Jon, & Lou G. were the moderators, I think). Justin Schwartz was on it, too. Some of us may not be here on LBO-talk (and/or Lou's Marxmail list), but for the Marxism-International days. At the United for Peace and Justice conference in Chicago, I met Rahul in person for the first time. When I introduced myself to him, he said that he knew me, which initially puzzled me because I had forgotten about Marxism-International. Then I remembered it all. :-0 :-> I wish I had been able to attend the Al-Awda International Convention in Toronto, where Charlotte was one of the speakers: Anyway, what's significant is that Charlotte and New Jersey Solidarity appear to be winning (the banner was not taken down despite the Israel Action Committee's sit-in, the conference was not called off, a sympathetic article by Chris Hedges gets published in the _New York Times_, etc), while advancing maximum democratic demands, without making any concession to liberals and Zionists at all. ------------------- Ethnic cleansing is hyperbolic charge, sure, but she's calling for a free >Palestine including what is now Israel. That suggest a one-state >solution, and not a binational one. My reading was close to Max's: get >the fuck out. Even if not her intent, it's such astoundingly stupid PR >that she deserved the press she got. ----------- Nathan Newman: Wait a second. One-state solution does not equal ethnic clensing. In fact, advocating ethnic enclave states has usually meant respective ethnic clensing (Turkey-Greece after WWI, Indian-Pakistan, etc), while one-state solutions usually are attempts at integration (Bosnia and even earlier Yugoslavia.) A two-state solution in Israel is based on expectations of most Jewish settlers getting out of the West Bank, so it's hardly about integration. I'm for a two-state solution just because, as I've said, Jews have the right to some real estate where they get to be nationalist bastards like anyone else, and the realities of history make anything else unlikely. But folks arguing for a negotiated one-state solution no more are necessarily arguing for ethnic clensing than those who have kept arguing for a multi-ethnic Bosnia. Folks like Brad may rightly doubt that a mutli-ethnic Israel-Palestine (or whatever it would be called) would protect all rights and would lead to abandonment of the state by the Jews, but it's hardly beyond the pale speech. I would not support such a position and opposed integrating it into the antiwar movement, as the WWP did, but the fact that there was even a debate about the group's right to meet at Rutgers is an obscene violation of the First Amendment. ------------ shane taylor: Oh Jesus. "Ethnic cleansing is hyperbolic charge," I said. And it wasn't one-state solution = ethnic cleansing. A one-state solution wasn't what I objected to, but "one-state solution, and *not a binational* one" (emphasis added). No one on this list, least of all myself, has objected to her right to hang the banner, which she was ultimately allowed to do. We are objecting to what she said, with it and in her comments to Hedges. Yet again, this is what I, like Brad and Max, was objecting to: ----------- > Ms. Kates also stirred up the campus in March > when her organization reserved banner space for > two weeks at the Douglass College Center. The > banner read: "From the River to the Sea, Palestine > Will be Free." > > "It was a call for all land between the Jordanian River > and the Mediterranean to be returned to the > Palestinians," she said. ----- Hedges, Max, Brad, and I all took that the same way. If her intent was otherwise, she screwed up. -- Shane --------------- That's because you assume that if the P's took back what was stolen from them, they'd treat the J the way the J's treated them, a point on which one would like to hear a bit more outrage. But in fact the evidence of South AFrica and other white setler states where majority rule was restored is quite otherwise. (Leaving Mygabe's recent repressiveness and racebaiting aside.) I happen to support a 2 state solution. But I regard the old PLO demand fora secular socialist unified Palestine to be an ideal, and that would mean precisely that "from the River to the Sea, Palestine Will be Free." The P's aren't brutes or vengeance mad-animals. The Js are not innocent civilized victims. Lets look at our assumptions, please! jks 

333616 trilingual danish site

333598 the only link here is one to - from there one finds to me sem-sympa sites on drugless health and gold-backed monies, etc. This must be a site made by middle aged people who have always liked to act younger than their ages 

333594 Standing Elk Brings Star Knowledge to Illinois (english) Tracy Pitts 4:04pm Sun Jul 20 '03 (Modified on 11:41pm Sun Jul 20 '03) phone: 708.484.5861 article#333594 Native American Chief Standing Elk teaches "Universal & Spiritual Laws of Creator." Free and opent to public. Holiday Inn Rolling Meadows, IL. 11:11 AM, August 2nd. ---- a3m scolds Seeley -- I go: wrong a3m, this has nothing to do with mark anymore .. . .after the old 4 pillarposts morphed ahead for generations . .. . sad to see so many stars and so little dust this guy has a lot of titles and sips tea around the worldwide new age circuit floating his fabulous froths - a well known ailments anthropologists suffer from to compensate for the awful straits and narrows ethnicities have gotten themselves up against. --- Dr. Richard Boylan, Ph.D., MSW, M.S. Ed. Adm., B.A. Researcher, Behavioral Scientist, Exo-Anthropologist, emeritus University Associate Professor of Psychology, Certified Clinical Hypnotherapist --- this is a new age circuit runner/star with frequent native contact but not to make up for the more ephemeral ufoic kind -- to his credit he links to places that have nothing to do with aliens: is Standing Elk's site out of Fort Collins; he is trying to do a rudimentary type of Arguelles of sorts on his fans (quarter of a million counted) --- click the stars for artful doodles and if you want to take it and expose yourself on my acount and 'authority', don't take 'm any more seriously or in any way sirius --- more art: 

333512 becommented articles ------------- 333494+4 on microbiology - -

333781+2 UK media articles on Kelly; very funny little gif here (Blair jumping up and down going "Please mr Bush, can we go to war now, can we, can we? -- a commenters pastes a rerun of a moscow times article by Chris Floyd wherein we find: Peddling Arms Blair's minions are putting the squeeze on India to accept a $1.4 Billion deal with arms merchant BAE Systems for 60 new jet fighters. This will no doubt have a very "calming influence" on the balance of power as the subcontinent teeters on the brink of nuclear war -- the same kind of calming influence gasoline has on fire. Of course, if Blair can get those billion war bucks into BAE's coffers, Master Georgie will be very pleased. For one of BAE's business partners is -- God, this is almost too easy! -- our old friends the Carlyle Group. -------------- 

333804 EURO MEDIA ON BLAIR KELLY - I go: closer to the top the more important (english) piet 12:18am Tue Jul 22 '03 comment#333812 their goddamn anonymity becomes .. . . yes that's right, too much liberty is a bad thing in most of our hands and even if not yet, rare the ones in whose hands it don't turn out that way, BAD! . . . . so Kelly, with all his payed up, legal, state authorized, borderline genocidal and way across it industrial snipertise felt something wasn't rite when his the brand on his butt was shown in public. Sources don't get mentioned unless they're dead, ergo, the BBC wants him as dead as those in givermound. Maybe they stopped him just in time from even more damning evidence. I think we should try the jim bell ideas for funding a little protection; guys like him, Pim Fortuyn etcetera need not have died. -------------- Oh and just one more thing (again) piet 12:30am Tue Jul 22 '03 comment#333816 there's the incircumventable matter of down to earth bio-physics to mention as precursor, parallel and unacknowledged guide/corrector for the dumb superstition that protects human sources (and thus perhaps far off relations) if/when they operate under the most violent of our/their kind. Scapegoatism and martyrdom point in this direction also by the way. Namely, the dead status accorded the tighter of mineral aggregates yielding to livelier and looser ones is a sacrifice and loss of distinct identity in order for the content to go forth, inform and multiply. I sure as hell would not doubt for a second if asked which of these activity are prominent due to a forgetfulness about the other, no two ways about it, yet we must struggle back up a dirty stream. --------- 

333813 is an annoying one line article on Kelly - I go: throw this in the bin please - should you not wish to I wish to offer rising tempers a safety valve to veritalbe substance on the subject: 333781 ---- whoops I meant 333804 really ------- hour later: well, I guess it stays --- who keeps count anyway? we all do: -------------- 333776 pr's two cents on the matter plus a good comment by Inspector Clouseau -------------- (via --- a very useful site counting outgoing clicks - in the international link catergory this one is by far the most popular: -------------- 

333773+6th =attila the nun tells it like it is, here's an excerpt: Assholes zip around in super expensive, super high-tech war machinery and not only terrorize innocent people, they kill, maim and torture them. They steel their resources, steal their ancient artifacts, their cultural memory, they destroy their infrastructure, their water supplies, their electrical system, etc... The assholes then give themselves big contracts for rebuilding the place and the assholes make the people pay. And they pat each other on the back; they have big ceremonies; they give themselves medals of honor for following orders... - pretty good linklist on a remarkably popular site considering the plain and simple makeup/layout 

333762+5 Amiri Baraka's supposed anti-semitism 

333820 (see the last item in this file ((tortuga section)) further down) 99% rot by earth haters and other semi-semites -- Baffled Scientists Begin To Question Crop Circle Origins -- He discovered an increase in the degree of crystallinity (the ordering of atoms) in the circle minerals, which statistician Ravi Raghavan determined was statistically significant at the 95 percent level of confidence. "I was shocked," says Iyengar, a 30-year specialist in clay mineralogy. "These changes are normally found in sediments buried for thousands and thousands of years under rocks, affected by heat and pressure, and not in surface soils." 

hey, once again my birthday is good for something! -- "...he harbours frustrated literary ambitions and sardonically reflects, apropos of a huge opus sent to h ime from San Francisco by his younger brother Rex, that he is "on the point of being dragged into collaborating with someone seeking the lowest form of literary immortality as established and pioneered by the annoying James Joyce, who thought it would be such a good idea to create puzzle palaces for thousands of specialists to wander around in forever.""  from a review by John Updike of "Mortals", a novel by Norman Rush, in the New Yorker, June 2, 2003 Sharett piece posted by brian in the middle of the night at dc.indy 77417 - commenters fear for his health --------------- 77305+18 on USS Liberty has a looooong comment consisting of: BODY OF SECRETS JAMES BAMFORD Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security Agency from the Cold War through a New Century Doubleday New york London Toronto Sydney Auckland  ------------ 77301+31 Dismayed by U.S. policies, some Americans move to Canada ---------------

?????? posts on liberia (very good) - I go: drumming is like asking 'won't you .. (english) piet 4:37am Sun Jul 20 '03 comment#333518 ... come out to play'? so, who or what's in the drum that a polite knock would bring out? choose'm carefully, pick a full one. I was disrespectful to one according to the owner and he gave me a full hand, startling slap for it. I never found out if that meant he had no patience for any of the humdrum 'magic muses nine, music mine' at implies/anticipates, he didn't seem very receptive. Care for some odd music? Tzolkin in C Major FINALIST IN TORU TAKEMITSU COMPOSITION AWARD 2002 

333848 pretty interesting place with lots of poetry ------------ 333946+4 pretty high grade item about a labour femme taking right turns lately with news on how the Bush admin is run like a business that needs an audit 

334070 2 = 'community scale economics' COMMUNITY SCALE ECONOMICS Issue 2 Table of Contents ------PLACEMAKING The New Urbanism Zoning and Housing that Serve Home-based Businesses By Michael Pyatok, FAIA ----- Share-It Square A Portland Neighborhood Creates Civic Riches by Andrea Montalbano -----Greenmarket Farmers' Markets of New York Make Modern Day Agora by Jane McGroarty Littleton, Colorado ------ A Self-reliant Community in the Global Age by Christian Gibbon -----FEATURE Amazing Shrinking Machines Local Economies are Thriving Alternatives to Globalism by Michael Shuman Resources for Community Scale Economies -------MICROENTERPRISE Profiles in Microlending Case Studies of Women Entrepreneurs by Betsy Brill ------ Encouraging New Entrepreneurs, Not Just Creating Jobs by Roberta Brandes ------- Gratz Resources for Microenterprises in the U.S. MONEY Making Money Sustainable Work in Progress at the Los Angeles Eco-Village by Lois Arkin ------- Community Currencies at a Crossroads New Ways Forward for Local Currencies and LETS Systems by Tom Cohen-Mitchell --------PROGRESSIVE BUSINESS MODELS Cooperatives Co-op and Worker Owned Businesses by Steve Bodzin Urban Aquaculture by Beth Ferguson -------  Sweet Economics New Cooperative Produces Chocolate Where it is Grown by Marc (Moth) ----- Green Resources for Cooperatives and Worker-Owned Businesses ---------SOCIAL PURPOSE VENTURES Youth Industry by Teresa Moore Resources in Community Economic Development ------------URBAN AGRICULTURE Urban Agriculture A Revolutionary Model for Economic Development Forward and Profiles by Chris LazarusProfiles in Urban Agriculture The Food Project- Roxbury and Lincoln, Massachusetts ===Isles Community Farm- Trenton, New Jersey ====Fairview Gardens- Goleta, California ===Annex Organics/ Field to Table- Toronto, Ontario ====Greensgrow Farm- Philadelphia, Pennsylvania ==Growing Home- Chicago, Illinois ===Village of Arts and Humanities- Philadelphia, Pennsylvania ====The Urban Agriculture Network- Washington, D.C. Resources in Urban Agriculture In Memory ------- 

eh(d Ob)e!a pagan community/trust in Wisconsin -------------- an intro to earlier comments about Wessel's perpmobile met the Intentional Community listmom's disapproval: Would the engineers amongst us deign to stoop to the unravelment of my clumsy prose describing a mobile as perpetual as it is friendly simply imagine a pair of rails with varying widths on either side secured in water now imagine bellows attached with air (total amount of which remains constant) communicating between the bellows filling on the wide side > and being squeezed at their highest point to go down the narrow side --- > seems like pretty cheap energy to me (reference made to comment 327364 and item 327743)

100 hits worth for 'golden mean architecture' 
didn't get me back to that shoestring budget, refuge material using architect who seemed lots like my wandered away sturdy yet elegant bubble builder Pim and who supplemented his physical tinkering with same but symbolic on computer 

Richard Carson is a writer and a practicing planner of 30 years who lives and works in the Pacific Northwest. He is also the Internet editor for the Open Directory Project’s Urban and Regional Planning category that has some 400 website listings. 

Found quite early on in the session but it seems to have littel to do with dome tinkering: Should check this out a little closer soon --- way deep into telemathmetical mysticisms, semitic paganoids and other flavors in occultitudes!!!!! 

michael rader's dome page seems to have disappeared a while ago, no google cache for it any longer or maybe it's down - everybody says (on older sites though) that he was the best resource around ----- 

// ----  ---- (plenny domes, good chance I 'll find him here . . .. geees maybe not, these guys don't even have a current URL for the famous Pavilion of Polyhedreality !!!! --- nor for this: Roger & Carol Partipilo's Web site You can see an animation of a dome being built, and find out about their dome home projects book and CD-ROM. ).. . .nah none of them are chaotically frayed around the loose end edges like this man I have in mind .....

... wait here he is . .. I thought for a moment upon recognizing the URL: sitting among the links here: Domebuilding with Concrete (and other materials) Collected, with comments, by Cathryn Martin -------- here are some artsy pages, this one messes with meshes: ~bo/mixIlusoryMeshes.html ---------- Nexinductor1.html nice torsion models 300K ------ . . .. .. .uh oh, . . ..this is not the guy resembling Pim ('conradi' the 'I want bowlshapes' ((a derivation of a dry light biscuit company named bolletje = little convex (and/or -cave) shape)) meaning that he will build them -- since to want and to will are odd enough expressed with the same conjugation) but in my search for him (through google rather than leafing back through my logs which is impossible since my sitefiles are starting to get as scattered as my jumps from theme to theme and I reserve straightening out till I have a fast enough machine that runs netscape and allows me to store stuff -- it's about time for a new linklist too)

I find a document that approaches Pim's work at a site I should explore more soon: Jacobs_helicalgeom_1a.html engineering a new architecture --- also wrote computers art and the 4th dimension Gift/Gift_Tensegrity.html  Timothy Wilken ----------- via I find: Compression and Tension are good; Torque's a Killer. Plato, Fuller and the three little pigs. via Temporary Desert Structures  43rd with the searchwords geodesic dome waste material - must be a man possessed with and fully focussed on dressing up the periodic table his very very own woody way -- here's this co-creator of mathematica (the program)'s page on how to get one: faintly rainbow fiercely formal but good to visit; it sorta stopped in 2001  but this mr Rose is/was(?) ahead of his time so don't let that bother you -- he reminds me of robert grace; saltless synthesis of all sorts of fringisms like greenglow: propulsion inventors through tinkering with gravity - lots of those in his linklist have given up the ghost or stagnated 22 topics, 155 posts in Design and Dream Need help refining the design of your new dome? Have a wacky new design idea you'd like to bounce off the others? Let's have it. ------- 17 topics, 108 posts in Domes In Progress Many exciting Monolithic Dome projects are now in progress! MountainView, Tranquility Dome, Safe Harbor, Dome of a Home, Curlew Keep, Way of the Circle and more! Keep us updated on the progress of YOUR project. ------- these guys from 177 Dome Park Place - Italy, TX 76651 look like cutting edge cropcream sort of caliber stuff in a top dollar kind of away: -------- what suprises me is that this site don't come around untill the 41st google page for 'geodesic dome creative' but there a quite a few places selling their books within the fist hundred ----------- went through the first 30 clicks for 'dome' pics but no luck that way either though it was relentlessly entertaining --1 New Time Economics Comprehensive Strategy -- 2 Home Market Values, Before and After History -- 3 Thirteen 13:20 -12:60 Value Contrasts --4 From Money to Kin Credits: Making the Transition to Post-History --5 Mobilizing Your Place in the Divine Plan -- 6 Universalizing the Knowledge: What More Do You Need to Know? -- 7 Seed Model to Comprehensive Program: Galactic Culture Funding Conversion System and Outline of Time Conversion Processess -- 8 Initial Seed Funding Allocations -- 9 Seed Conversion Model: Micro Earth Conversion Trust --10 Seed Conversion Model: Program Description --11 Planting the Seeds, Converting to Trust --12 Seed Conversion Model and Microconversion Earth Trust for the Establishment of the Earth Conversion Trust Fund --13 Galactic Culture Master Plan Moral Emergency Call

Planet Art Network message board - 4 commenters before me on the thread called 'caught in infinity' mention mars and noah and so I decide to spill my beans in answer to what I decide might be curiosity toward me: So far the only to my tastes (at going rates .. .didn't wanna say 'any rate' since I don't want to sound as cheap as I am and that's the truth) plausible theory I have come across (or which came to cross me) on wether or not man or something preceding him might have walked and wandered off mars (a lot close to infinity than this place, rite?) is penned by a man called Hardy (Genesis Continuous. Origin Solar System GENESIS CONTINUOUS. © - Search all the ... this theory). GENESIS CONTINUOUS or SUN THE MOTHER. Solar System Origins; - 101k) about some sort of one way and regularized musical chairs (his concept in a nuts-hell: mars once circulated where we are now ((ideal distance to sun)) and venus will, one fine day), but I prefer to stand by my sigs alternative view of time’s murky depths (including the in- and perversions they suffer once folks try plumb it and/or stake out claims to chunks of it accepting space as substitute) if only cause it is the more timely one and remedial to the most typical and long lasting of the human parts of the world's woes. I know, I know, you would have our species sorta bleed and weave through space and time in properly psychedelic fashion but the binaries boundary and boundless do not bond all that well except in make believeland; however since I am king thereof I command you to find the happy medium and take your place as such between the singular impervious rock and the infinite amount of particals you may help sprout therefrom; play cosmology the william blakean way (did he use fresh dust in his garden? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? To illustrate how much harder interhuman reality is (overshadowing the simple interspecies message just hinted at) I will recount a tv program called the black sheep aired yesterday in Holland for you; a stiff thin lipped prim sorta dame with sharp features and some legal convictions for disseminating hate speech ---(she is convinced the jews brought the holocaust upon themselves for refusing jesus – I have seen Schusslburner convincingly argue that holocaust means ‘zoenoffer’, penance, payment by jews to make up .. . . for what they did to Germanic Russians – but this lives at a site that likes to deny the holocaust altogether, I’d prefer to see the role of Zionism to become clearer, I am trying to find time to start the big volumes by Solzhenitsyn on this topic which I expect to try soften and perhaps even refute Schuesslburner’s conclusions)--- on her record was defending herself against a colourful (turkey)shooting squad made up of: a female theologian a gay columnist her own daughter the second most controversial imam in Holland (runner up to the guy who said gayness is a disease etc, charges against whom ((because of this hate speech)) were dropped) Holland's most media friendly rabbi and a proffesor in I forgot what --(Smalhout --- wait, google to the rescue ((research clue)): has a good little characterization of this prof in anaesthetics ((they should get him to ‘fix’ junkies)) writes for the biggest daily tabloid) who wrote plenty of books on the bible  (Dutch: - 12k ----- - 10k)--- and who had the best arguments to counter Goree with: jesus was hailed (upon donkeybacked entry – never mind the pagan implications of the burdenbeast) by a sizewise more representative mass/mob than the little elite one which in front of the Roman magistrate, bright and early in the morn, clamored for his death. Ps the next day: Surfin around I just find a little something on the Xtian right that scares plenny: ...Which brings us to our next link between the Jesus Revolution and Latin America -- Gospel Outreach, a California-based sect that originated in the Jesus Movement. Gospel Outreach planted so many 'El Verbo' churches [Church of the Word] in Latin America that a website devoted to Remembering the Jesus Movement classifies Gospel Outreach as a denomination, along with Calvary Chapel and the Vineyard. With 100 affiliated churches worldwide the Gospel Outreach network is one of three denominational legacies of the Jesus People Movement. 27. Gospel Outreach gained notoriety when one of its elders, Gen. Rios Montt, became president of Guatemala during the 1982 military coup. By 1982, the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency was well-entrenched in Guatemala. In 1954, the CIA had joined with the United Fruit Company, wealthy plantation owners and the military to overthrow the freely-elected president of Guatemala, Jacobo Arbenz. Xtian Right and Guatemalan genocide [Richard Paradise of Gospel Outreach] says he works under the auspices of the World Zionist Organization as a liaison with U.S. evangelicals, with the assigned role of working against anti-Semitism within the U.S. . . ---- According to a special report entitled 'Sectas y Religiosidad en American Latina' published in October 1984 by the Chile-based Instituto Latinoamericano de Estudios Transnacionales, during Rios Montt's rule, members of Gospel Outreach's Verbo church took jobs in espionage and torture and accompanied Israeli and Argentinean experts during interrogation sessions." 33 posted by Michael Pugliese on LBO --------  I just ran into these very guys I think, at in a search for arguelles and martyrdom - findings of which I believe I posted somewhere around here. - #### dangerous word that, it will taint even the uppermost best intentioned. Yesterday I watched the account of Hitler's seccy about his last days; he killed/martyred (oh wait, a plain suicide don't count right? Gotta drag a bunch widya? ? ? ?) himself and left her feeling very betrayed and angry. Most startling detail: he/they travelled throught germany in trains with the blinders down to all the more easily remain lost in irreality. Bible covers work just as well, war in wore out -------------- 

Icosahedron - This place could do with more levelheaded discussion of the stages/layers/gradualizations between the supposed octahedron at the center of the earth and the icosahedronic (and/or -al?) arrangement of root races or ethnoflavors rather than the to me evermore much too cargo cultish galacticonfederacy fabulnation. Ps: why no more pics of the icosa in any of the pdf's (as far as I checked .. . quite a few)?? Ps: the site you linked has mathematechnical jargon to criticize hoagland bearden and Val Valerian with and under 'other polyhedra we find: /papers/qfract/node16.html I have made excursions through 'sacred geometry' featuring sites ever since starting to record my findings but haven't gathered them anywhere really so use a scatterbrain (like google) to find them. ------- a next commenter points out this link: papers/qfract/images/index.htm 

essential corrections: Glastonbury, UK: Earth Ascendence. 3 days of Natural living in Natural Time. Live music, poetry and performance will provide the main entertainment. Workshops include Sacred Geometry, Herbalism, Clay House Building, Yoga, Reiki, Introduction To Natural Time, Raw Food, Ethnobotany and Shamanism, Alternative Technology. Also provided will be Hot Tub and Sauna spaces, Body Painting, healing, interactive art displays and visuals, lots of bubbles, solar powered cinema, storytelling, fancy dress costumes, sacred ceremonies and treats for everybody!!!! This text is the apetizer for a javalink close to the top of the front page (iching71 something or other) but the link don't work; the second one to Glastonbury (the caravan) a little further down under the heading 'caravans' does work and probably reaches the document the first link tries to target. Please fix. I advertized it thusly at 7271 : A free grass-roots type festi for the extremely sensitive and extremely endangered (in danger of falling off the earth into spacious speculations) calender reformers of this day and age. Oh, almost forgot, in Glastonbury. --------- still no luck on finding the RAINBOW thread by the way, though the search engine is starting to work for me now (too??), it finds two other small threads in one of which 'rainbow' don't even occur once! (?) don't work yet neither ------------------ the link in the library to the document interweaving Quran, Buddhist and Maya verses ditto - (must be the one that has been recalled to await further ripening and pearldigesting powers of us dumb swine)

RAINBOW (check the first fifth of this file for the preceding in this thread)--- I am glad this thread has been allowed on and/or decided to return after going missing a while yesterday. a fresh indymedia(.org) item 333300 points to (cultural survival -- Weekly Indigenous News - 1:52pm Fri Jul 18 '03 ----The Weekly Indigenous News is an online service provided by Cultural Survival to those who want to keep up-to-date on the latest news from and about the indigenous world. Each week we compile a diverse collection of original reports, feature articles, organization profiles, press releases, links to stories from other press outlets, and more. The News is intended to be a tool and resource for indigenous people, advocates, scholars, students and interested members of the general public, to help keep you abreast of current issues and events from and affecting indigenous communities around the globe.) and I decided to post a plug of sorts thusly: the single most universal/harmonic and yet, diverse, bottom on up conglomorate umbrella movement with the old sixties inspirations of flower power, bioregionalism, native autonomy, etc are swarming here: I find it more and more worth my time to struggle with the nasty side effects of their psychonauthood: ungrounded fabulation swallowing more time than good for us/them or anything else. I don't know what's worse, all these bullets, this blood poison and gore or the methodical structuring/realization of imaginations from fancies to chimerae about life off the earth ------- Ps: the number of that item has to be code for an octahedron don't you agree? (I have a nice one at index3.htm .. . . . . . . .See, that's what I mean, there is no end to the analogs, symmetries and synchronicities once you believe they exist, it becomes all the more fruitless absurd and counterproductive to hunt for them when there is the countless ways resulting from the simple freeing up (fr)action ((systemicizingly 'distributed' rock)) rite waiting to get started) OK, I'll try to dive into one the all too numerous numberless numerations around here again. Ps: they're charging a fee for the 26th of july festivities in Holland, offer commercial accomodations AND DO FIREWALKS!!!! - YUK!-- I've devoted plenny of my time and word rigging skill to the utter insult this sort of 'empowerments' costs the earth and us elsewhere. see this all you dutchspeakers: Bilingual (E and D): -------------- did noah come from mars? Or is he just a metaphor for man and his forest denuding, boat building ways causing floods? ----------- 

Day Out of Time Planning. Plan your bioregional Be in, July 25, 2003 or find the event closest to you. ---------  I added an article to the glastonbury thread: english/html/events/0-1.htm Indigenous Festival and Conference (IFC) 2003 An Exciting New Free Festival & Conference Comes to Bristol! Create Centre - Smeaton Road, Bristol, Saturday 26th - Sunday 27th July 2003 An event in Bristol coinciding with the tortuga Glasto one  --   with a little note added: Perhaps a good idea to get an excursion caravan trial run going there??  ----------- ps: the dutch dayoutoftimers on the other hand plan to do the diabolic thing: firewalking -- I have posted criticisms (derived from John Ray deceased founder of body electronics) on it throughout the years, see below for a compilation. I fail to see how folks who put nice Apple-style bleu-translucently toned icons on the net come up with this age old poor man's power trick/tool/weapon: fire's flame, glow and subjection/absorption. It comes across as extremist to me. Perhaps there is a danger one locks oneself into the seals/icons in the same way the subtler emotions get scorched by the firewalk .. . .?? Any thoughts? posted the relevant passage from: vadercats/miscs-n-logs/indymedia2.htm - 93k - along with other googlies -------------- 

I posted something similar in dutch in the events thread called 'Pan Belgium is rising , together' (with french contributions as well), asking again about the relationship between firewalking and fixed price charging (as announced to take place on the 25th near Apeldoorn) on the one hand and the pretty icons at the last link on the other

Tortuga search .. My (7th) comment: There we go again; create a system/infrastructure and the compliant majority crowds throng together to make the drudge drone and pawn parts of its chores as cosy and quizzy and squeezy as possibe and just OK. I am more the scout kind of guy who stays on the edge and looks out over/for nomanslands at edges and borders; I found a few sites via - that illustrate partly what I mean: A most level headed look at Mayan tracking and I don't see any refs to the amount of bloodpints all these numbers add up and/or correlate to, but maybe the Mayans weren't so bloody as the Nat Geog. Soc. is fond of showing us. --- A pleasantly light touch diverse list in keeping with previously mentioned page. another broad approach with a very elegant last link: "If the Mayan calendar doesn't work for you, try one of these!" ------------- and now for something completely different: reality bites!!!  ---- ------------------------- Out here in scoop skip crossover kintry one sees how colours and contentious cons bleed into each other and one can take note of the frayz, the frazzles, the frays the strays the straddles, the phrases, phases, arbitrary disputes and just plainly plumcrazy pursuits . .. . . ... A little document (by A. Idris Palmer Executive Director The Society for Adherence to the Sunnah) an examplary simple piece of proof that Farrakhan and Tynetta Muhammad are religious loonies (clinging to some very far out theories indeed; black man came from the moon and created white ones 6600 years ago) Little wonder Arguelles, a man with a Messiah complex himself would slither close and see how he holds and measures up with the competition --- there seems no better way to bloat ego than with big numbers and the less one has to keep tabs on real stuff they should decently stand for the fewer the restraints and the bigger they 'grow' ------------- TESTIMONYFILES/marswars.htm ------------- The summary of Code 19 presented below is en excerpt from "The Prime Argument," a two-round argument between Edip Yuksel and astronomer Carl Sagan. . .. . .. .. . in order to arrive at a no nonsense (yet all nonsense) rock solid bottom line (. . .yet with the resolve necessary to have impact there and make it fruitfull): down with crowds and pecking orders, up with pleaching and permaculture - brian posts a comment to an electronicintifada article off a site that features this besides: Poetry%20&%20Pictures/ poetrypics1A.htm and amonst the links we find one to calendar pages over sixty of 'm and the only one referring to a maya one don't work  -------------- 334184+4 (depreciative comments) The Psychology Underlying "Liberalism" By John J. Ray (looooong article) ------------- 334282 The Four Reasons why "We The People" must remove the current administration of The United States of America  -----------
334361 A British journalist specializing in Middle Eastern affairs has identified Islamaphobia as the acceptable face of anti-Semitism in the West in a new book  to be published in August 2003.

Archive of older material:

Piet penrun's archived
off the cuff stuff pile files
fillstart: 22-7 --- fillstop: 30-10 =
last2002logbriefer.htm (80K)
/2002/logsbriefers.htm| - /2001/| ||| |/1999 + 2000/| ||| |/98 -99

Gleanings from a (more or ((should I say)) less) exclusive source indymedia  -open publishing news and opinion-  begin accumulating here: Indymediasamples.htm  and end up archived here: 2002/Indymedia.htm (32K, 4 issues) | ||| | 2001/(55K for 21 of them)

Punpinpiet the Compos(-i-t-)er's invites you to Direct responses, challenges, complaints and -i- and -yments or whatever t'wards: --------------------
Stat installed for 18 old files (out of the hundreds in the 30megs here) on the 13th of july 2001 and in every indy (starting at 7) + logbriefer file since (about 3 a month) (multiple file visits count as one). 
central index
Given a new twist
last on the 19th of februari 2003